That's my real question here is the why the need to fit it all in together.
I guess that's the case but it lands oddly when you try to force the issue or make it fit based on clever reworking of data points.
Were there other Enterprises between the NX-01 and the NCC-1701?
- Thread starter Dukhat
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I've always liked to think they were saving the name Enterprise for something special.
After the NX-01 was honorably decommissioned there was probably a pretty rapid expansion on Starship construction, both from the Romulan War and the Birth of the Federation. This would have likely been the Daedalus class, which we know canonically was active in this time.
In my mind, the Daedalus class, while very capable, was very much a "cookie cutter" type of ship. Mass produced to help fill out Starfleets numbers, especially after having just fought a war with the Romulans.
I like to think the name Enterprise was held in reserve until Starfleet started building ships that weren't just mass produced fleet fillers. The NX-01 seems to be held in great esteem. It was Earth's first deep space vessel. It saved the planet from the Xindi. It played a part in bringing about the Coalition of Planets. And that's just what we saw on the show. For all we know, it was a hero ship of the Romulan War. The name Enterprise is special to Starfleet. To special to slap on any old Daedalus.
We know the Constitution class was considered to be special. From Kirk bragging about there only being "twelve like her in the fleet." To members of the Discovery crew practically drooling at the sight of her.
If the Constitution class was launched in the early 2240's, it's reasonable to assume design work started decades before. I like the idea of Archer, using whatever pull he had, to get the name Enterprise attached to one of these new Constitution class ships on the drawing boards in the 2220's. A class he personally deemed worthy to carry the name of his old ship.
After the NX-01 was honorably decommissioned there was probably a pretty rapid expansion on Starship construction, both from the Romulan War and the Birth of the Federation. This would have likely been the Daedalus class, which we know canonically was active in this time.
In my mind, the Daedalus class, while very capable, was very much a "cookie cutter" type of ship. Mass produced to help fill out Starfleets numbers, especially after having just fought a war with the Romulans.
I like to think the name Enterprise was held in reserve until Starfleet started building ships that weren't just mass produced fleet fillers. The NX-01 seems to be held in great esteem. It was Earth's first deep space vessel. It saved the planet from the Xindi. It played a part in bringing about the Coalition of Planets. And that's just what we saw on the show. For all we know, it was a hero ship of the Romulan War. The name Enterprise is special to Starfleet. To special to slap on any old Daedalus.
We know the Constitution class was considered to be special. From Kirk bragging about there only being "twelve like her in the fleet." To members of the Discovery crew practically drooling at the sight of her.
If the Constitution class was launched in the early 2240's, it's reasonable to assume design work started decades before. I like the idea of Archer, using whatever pull he had, to get the name Enterprise attached to one of these new Constitution class ships on the drawing boards in the 2220's. A class he personally deemed worthy to carry the name of his old ship.
Yeah Trek fandom has that history of wanting everything to be a small universe.
There are sometimes when I can agree, sometimes not. I *DO* think Rasmussen should have had some kind of connection to NX-01, just given that all the time travel shenanigan's happening in ENT and given he was from the 22nd century. Through ENT's whole run I was hoping for a sort of prequel to that episode, showing how Rasmussen obtained the ship in the first place.
But yeah, all of the things all of the time don't need to be related, and it's also ok for there to be some stretches of time where there aren't certain things. It's ok for there to not be a ship named Enterprise for awhile.
This is what I use for my Daedalus history.
I like to think the Daedalus actually did enter service during the Romulan War, as an Earth design. I have it actually closer to mass produced garbage, a ship that easy to slap together and get out into the war, to the point that the design was outsourced to the other Coalition members who slapped together whatever they had. It led the Daedalus' being not super uniform... it was a cheap spaceframe that could accept any number of components, so they were something of a frankenstein fleet which became the prototype for how Federation Starfleet ships worked... with production being all over the place during the war, the Vulcans may have churned a few out with Vulcan warp drives and tractor beams, while they got a shipment of weapons from Earth and just integrated those, with some Andorian shields they pulled from disabled Andorian vessels.
They don't last too long after the war because they were made to be almost disposable.
my version:
The NX-01 is in the fleet museum. While the name is technically available, no one is ready to reuse it. Eventually enough time has passed that when the "Starship Class" project gets started, whose ships are all named after older famous starships, it makes sense to bring back the name of the most famous Earth starship.
The NX-01 is in the fleet museum. While the name is technically available, no one is ready to reuse it. Eventually enough time has passed that when the "Starship Class" project gets started, whose ships are all named after older famous starships, it makes sense to bring back the name of the most famous Earth starship.
I headcanon them to be smaller than otherwise suggested. I like to think Daedalus' can be operated by an insanely small crew and they were really meant as nothing more than weapons delivery platforms... churn the ship out, fly out to Romulan space, fire payload, rinse and repeat. Like a Space B-17.
You can partially blame the line uttered by Reed about there being another Enterprise existing after the NX-01 in the finale. To viewers, it means the Constitution class Enterprise 80+ years later, and should mean that. But the line can be spun around as meaning something else.
Maybe it was immediately decommissioned as a part of the peace treaty with the Romulans, with the Romulans unfairly viewing the NX-01 crew as the reason the war started in the first place. There are no canon sources that state what specifically is in the peace treaty other than there will be a Neutral Zone. Though it is canon that Archer's time as captain ended in 2160.
So maybe, any new Enterprise its as much a subtle “screw you” to the Romulans as it is to honour the crew – a Daedalus ship called USS Enterprise existing for several months in 2160 & early 2161 before the Federation is founded; a ship class called Enterprise-class based off of the NX-01 refit that's in service for the remainder of the 22nd century and well in the early 23rd century; all those ships seen in Disco as successors to the NX-01 design that goes all the way to Akira class in the 24th century. Maybe XCV-330 is brought out of mothballs for a special yet unofficial mission, as Archer won’t captain any other ship than one called Enterprise, and that’s what the mural in TMP is really honouring.
Maybe there's a space station or starbase named after Enterprise, or has the nickname "Enterprise".
The line was pretty blatantly foreshadowing Kirk's ship.
Sorry, didn’t realize you were so sensitive about that topic, especially since I wasn’t replying to you.
Yeah I really don't see how anyone got anything else from that.
It's one of those things that sure, if we REALLY needed to, we could finagle some kind of cockamamy reasoning as to how there was an Enterprise inbetween NX-01 and 1701.
But. Why?
I *SUPPOSE*, if you REALLY needed it to exist, it could be a Sao Paulo/Defiant situation. Perhaps there was a USS Enterprise NCC-1701 that existed prior to 2245, it was lost/destroyed/whatever, and Starfleet simply... used the same name and registry on a new ship. That what happens in the Kelvin Timeline comics... the TOS Enterprise existed, prior to the Konnie, with the same name and registry.
I think the debate should be over now. SNW established that any given Enterprise always incorporates a part from the previous vessel of that name. And it was a part from the NX-01. So logically speaking there can be no Enterprises between the two.
Yeah it was made explicit that NX-01 was the last ship to have the name Enterprise before 1701. This really isn't a debate at all.
Does sorta beg the question, though, how could the Enterprise-D have gotten ahold of a part from the C? I doubt the Romulans would have handed over the C's wreckage...
I'm sure Starfleet had some old peice of hull plating, or some replaced components laying around for exactly that occasion. I've still got bits of cars I haven't owned in 20 years.
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I mean... a few things...
One, this was a tradition circa 2245. It may have changed in a century or so.
Two, it's certainly not MANDATORY... like, there can not legally be a ship if this does not happen.
It's just kind of a fun tradition, not grim law.
EDIT -
It tracks for Titan, being some kind of weird new ship/refit hybrid thing. Not Enterprise-G, though, for obvious reasons.
I'm sure Starfleet wanted to collect as much debris as possible, to piece together exactly what happened during the battle.
And the Romulans would probably only want a big chunk so they could parade it straight through the capital. They wouldn't bother with collecting every bit.
And the Romulans would probably only want a big chunk so they could parade it straight through the capital. They wouldn't bother with collecting every bit.
I always felt bad for the Enterprise-C crew that basically became P.O.W.s following their return if any survived.
At least they knew what their sacrifice was for, or at least, hopefully.
My gripe with that episode is that they all put ALOT of stock into Guinan's gut feeling. Granted, especially with later information we know that El Aurians are physically attuned to timeline changes, but still...
Funny, that. The young Guinan we see in season 2 of PIC didn't seem to have this ability. Perhaps that only happens when you enter the Nexus? But then Picard doesn't seem to have that ability either.
The survivors of the C’s crew were probably all executed when Tasha attempted escape.
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