Were there other Enterprises between the NX-01 and the NCC-1701?

[ChristopherPike]

Those Old Scientists

It was stated that the tradition is to start construction of a new starship using a peice of the last ship to bear its name, which was the NX-01.

I hate to be a contrary Mary, but does that really actually rule out an Enterprise in-between NX-01 and the 1701 April, Pike & later Kirk command?

How do you apply that tradition to the Enterprise-D then? The C was lost and never recovered. We don't know what became of the B, although presumably if it made into mothballs a piece from it would serve the same purpose. Perhaps a Daedalus was christened Enterprise, but similarly went missing in action?

 

[HotRod]

but does that really actually rule out an Enterprise in-between NX-01 and the 1701 April, Pike & later Kirk command?

Well...... yeah? I mean, combine that statement with the Dedication plaques that say "Fifth Starship to bear the name...." or whatnot, and we can pretty clearly deduce that there was no Federation Starship Enterprise until the 1701.

Now in regards to the tradition, we can assume it's done whenever possible. Hell, I'm sure they had some peice of the Enterprise-C laying around that they could have put in the D. Some hull plate that got replaced. Some old part that was upgraded. Hell, I still have parts from cars I haven't owned for over 20 years.

 

[evilchumlee]

Yeah timeline just doesn't work.

We know from several sources that NCC-1701 was the first Federation ship named Enterprise.

NX-01 was in service right up until the formation of the Federation.

There's really no room for another Enterprise.

 

[Dukhat]

Yeah timeline just doesn't work.

We know from several sources that NCC-1701 was the first Federation ship named Enterprise.

NX-01 was in service right up until the formation of the Federation.

There's really no room for another Enterprise.

Unless UESPA had their own Enterprise post-2161, and Starfleet didn't want a naming conflict with a sister organization until the NCC-1701 started conducting missions for both agencies, as I mentioned in the OP.

 

[somebuddyX]

"They were handing out Enterprises like participation awards. Everybody wanted one. The Andorians even fielded two of the bastards, but they spelt the other one with a Z."

 

[evilchumlee]

Unless UESPA had their own Enterprise post-2161, and Starfleet didn't want a naming conflict with a sister organization until the NCC-1701 started conducting missions for both agencies, as I mentioned in the OP.

It's not impossible, but feels off.

SNW seems to have confirmed that's not the case now for sure.

If ANYTHING, rather than another Enterprise... it's perhaps more plausible that NX-01 was decommissioned from Starfleet service, but saw further life in Earth's fleet rather than the Federation's. PIC S2 and 3 suggest NX-01 got the refit, which know didn't happen as of 2161.

 

[Dukhat]

It's not impossible, but feels off.

SNW seems to have confirmed that's not the case now for sure.

If ANYTHING, rather than another Enterprise... it's perhaps more plausible that NX-01 was decommissioned from Starfleet service, but saw further life in Earth's fleet rather than the Federation's. PIC S2 and 3 suggest NX-01 got the refit, which know didn't happen as of 2161.

That does seem like the more likely scenario. Of course that begs the question…why was the ship decommissioned if they were just to refit it and reuse it?

 

[Nerys Myk]

The NX-01 refit..((((shudder))))

 

[mattman8907]

The NX-01 refit..((((shudder))))

What’s wrong with the NX-refit I like it. It looks like prototype Constitution class. Maybe there’s where they got the idea for the Connie in the first place. Also the one starship class I can’t stand is the Daedalus class. A Death Star with nacelles.

 

[Nerys Myk]

What’s wrong with the NX-refit I like it. It looks like prototype Constitution class. Maybe there’s where they got the idea for the Connie in the first place. Also the one starship class I can’t stand is the Daedalus class. A Death Star with nacelles.

Unnecessary. The original is fine. No need to too slap Connie parts on it. Too fanwankish. v

 

[somebuddyX]

It's not impossible, but feels off.

SNW seems to have confirmed that's not the case now for sure.

If ANYTHING, rather than another Enterprise... it's perhaps more plausible that NX-01 was decommissioned from Starfleet service, but saw further life in Earth's fleet rather than the Federation's. PIC S2 and 3 suggest NX-01 got the refit, which know didn't happen as of 2161.

Why not? We never see the exterior of NX-01 in 2161. We see it in a montage in "TATV" that could be set anytime. If the refit happened in Season 5 like Manny wanted then it was around for 5 or 6 years.

 

[evilchumlee]

That does seem like the more likely scenario. Of course that begs the question…why was the ship decommissioned if they were just to refit it and reuse it?

It was decommissioned by Starfleet, now a Federation organization, to be repurposed for use in an Earth-based fleet.

Why not? We never see the exterior of NX-01 in 2161. We see it in a montage in "TATV" that could be set anytime. If the refit happened in Season 5 like Manny wanted then it was around for 5 or 6 years.

It's been some time since i've seen the episode, I had just assumed we got some exterior ship shots as per usual. If that's the case... yeah it may have already just got the refit.

 

[Dukhat]

It was decommissioned by Starfleet, now a Federation organization, to be repurposed for use in an Earth-based fleet.

My point was, why would Starfleet decommission it at all, when it was clear that the ship was still completely fine and usable, or at least fine enough to have a secondary hull built onto it with Starfleet markings?

It's been some time since i've seen the episode, I had just assumed we got some exterior ship shots as per usual. If that's the case... yeah it may have already just got the refit.

Altbough we never see the exterior of the ship, there are bridge displays which clearly show the ship in its original configuration.

 

[evilchumlee]

My point was, why would Starfleet decommission it at all, when it was clear that the ship was still completely fine and usable, or at least fine enough to have a secondary hull built onto it with Starfleet markings?

Any number of reasons.

NX-01 was built as a prototype. It's "fine" and "usable", but that doesn't mean it's a particularly great ship by 2161.

Or who knows what kind of political stuff was going on. Maybe Starfleet becomes a Federation organization, but Earth reserved the right to keep the best ships for its own force.

Altbough we never see the exterior of the ship, there are bridge displays which clearly show the ship in its original configuration.

That sounds more like it. It seemed clear that by 2161 the ship had not received the refit.

I'm also not 100% sure in PIC it's ever actually confirmed on screen that when we see that refit, it's Enterprise. It may have been intended to be such, but I don't recall any dialogue saying such or any other indication.

 

[Dukhat]

Any number of reasons.

NX-01 was built as a prototype. It's "fine" and "usable", but that doesn't mean it's a particularly great ship by 2161.

Or who knows what kind of political stuff was going on. Maybe Starfleet becomes a Federation organization, but Earth reserved the right to keep the best ships for its own force.

I would think that a fledgling organization like the Federation in 2161 would want as many ships in their fleet as they could get. The bottom line is that the NX-01 as presented in TATV seemed to have nothing wrong with it, and the only reason why it was being decommissioned was so that ‘canon’ could be restored.

I'm also not 100% sure in PIC it's ever actually confirmed on screen that when we see that refit, it's Enterprise. It may have been intended to be such, but I don't recall any dialogue saying such or any other indication.

It’s the NX-01. Dave Blass posted official identification of all the ships at the Museum.

Of course this also begs the question: Why was the NX-01 sitting at the Starfleet Museum all by its lonesome when Frontier Day was supposed to be about the celebration of the ship? It didn’t seem to be implied that the ship was going to be moved to Earth, or that the fleet was going to end up at the Museum. Methinks ‘Frontier Day’ was originally supposed to be about something else, and was changed at the last minute…

 

[Tiran O'Saurus]

What do you think it was originally celebrating? 250 years of NX-01 did seem kind of random, yeah.

 

[evilchumlee]

I would think that a fledgling organization like the Federation in 2161 would want as many ships in their fleet as they could get.

Right, but if the deal was something like Earth offering to send a majority of its fleet... while retaining some select vessels... seems like the Federation would be best off agreeing to it.

The bottom line is that the NX-01 as presented in TATV seemed to have nothing wrong with it, and the only reason why it was being decommissioned was so that ‘canon’ could be restored.

Enterprise-A had nothing wrong with it at the end of ST6 and was being decommissioned as well. Just because a ship is spaceworthy doesn't mean it's going to remain in active service in perpetuity. But yes... NX-01 absolutely had to be destroyed/retired/something prior to the formation of the Federation.

It’s the NX-01. Dave Blass posted official identification of all the ships at the Museum.

There's a difference between "official" and "canon". We know background intent of many things, but if it's not on screen, it didn't happen.

Still there's not really a huge issue with that, but it require a bit of mental gymnastics to get there.

Of course this also begs the question: Why was the NX-01 sitting at the Starfleet Museum all by its lonesome when Frontier Day was supposed to be about the celebration of the ship? It didn’t seem to be implied that the ship was going to be moved to Earth, or that the fleet was going to end up at the Museum. Methinks ‘Frontier Day’ was originally supposed to be about something else, and was changed at the last minute…

As per Geordie, the E-D was the only operational starship there.

I suppose they could have tugged NX-01 to chill at Spacedock for the event, but it seems like alot of work and risk of potential damage to a 250 year old vessel to do so.

 

[CaptChris42]

I would think that a fledgling organization like the Federation in 2161 would want as many ships in their fleet as they could get. The bottom line is that the NX-01 as presented in TATV seemed to have nothing wrong with it, and the only reason why it was being decommissioned was so that ‘canon’ could be restored.



It’s the NX-01. Dave Blass posted official identification of all the ships at the Museum.

Of course this also begs the question: Why was the NX-01 sitting at the Starfleet Museum all by its lonesome when Frontier Day was supposed to be about the celebration of the ship? It didn’t seem to be implied that the ship was going to be moved to Earth, or that the fleet was going to end up at the Museum. Methinks ‘Frontier Day’ was originally supposed to be about something else, and was changed at the last minute…

That said, I'm not sure we've had an explanation for the 'USS Saratoga' being housed there, too? Or so I heard. Supposedly Sisko's old ship (despite being kablooied) ...?

 

[Dukhat]

Right, but if the deal was something like Earth offering to send a majority of its fleet... while retaining some select vessels... seems like the Federation would be best off agreeing to it.

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that the NX class was already built to be 'Starfleet' vessels, and one of the fastest. So to decommission a ship that was purpose-built for everything Starfleet needed (especially for the new Federation) , doesn't really fly. Was the Columbia decommissioned as well (which was only a few years younger than the Enterprise)?

Enterprise-A had nothing wrong with it at the end of ST6 and was being decommissioned as well.

The prevailing theory was that the Enterprise-A was an older ship renamed, that needed to be decommissioned once the new Enterprise-B was finished construction. So the circumstances are a bit different. Non-canon, I know, but there's really no good other reason for the ship being decommissioned so early. Plus, Starfleet had way more ships in 2293 than it did in 2161.

There's a difference between "official" and "canon". We know background intent of many things, but if it's not on screen, it didn't happen.

The CGI model of the Enterprise had NX-01 on the hull.

That said, I'm not sure we've had an explanation for the 'USS Saratoga' being housed there, too? Or so I heard. Supposedly Sisko's old ship (despite being kablooied) ...?

I think that was a mistake. I don't think Blass knew that Sisko's ship was destroyed, and had to backpedal with some convoluted explanation later.

 

[HotRod]

The NX-01 got the living shit beat out of it over its lifespan. Maybe there's only so much a spaceframe can take before it's no longer cost effective to keep her up and running.

Better to retire the ship with some dignity, than continue to run her into the ground.