They've been in space for 65 million years.
Do you think they've just been dicking around?
Do you think they've just been dicking around?
Were the Voth more powerful than the Borg?
- Thread starter Infern0
- Start date
Saquist
Commodore
Yes, it does.
I would be irrational to suggest other wise.
Then they purposely lost the battle with the Enterprise, the Federation Fleet as well as in Descent and Voyager numerous times.
It suggest only that their society has limitations and that they could be further along in certain areas.
I'm sure if the script called for it they could do anything just like Voyager.
We don't even know how they even got into space much less if the tech they have was even created by them. They already lied about the belief of their origins. Why do we assume they aren't lying about creating their own technology? It's the DQ after all, it very well could be stolen.
Does it matter? They are dinosaurs. Are you implying they could have been still on Earth until just before Humanity evolved?
However, in the space of so many feats for the Borg, it would seem rather suspect that they wouldn't use additional, more effective abilities. If they had the power to stop Voyager as if she were controlled by a light switch, they would have done so many times. If they could have disabled her by remote control rather than projectile weapons in Q Who and elsewhere, they would have. And of all the times they wanted to capture specific ships, wouldn't beaming a ship be a more effective trap than tractoring? And what's the point of seeing if a ship runs at full capacity when one can just as easily take control of the computer and download all its records, logs, and schematics that explain in detail the conditions of optimum efficiency, the times the ship achieved those conditions, and the crew's recommendations?
Essentially then, every time our heroes got away, or every time the Borg were defeated, it's been a rather wasteful cost of resources -- one for a race that praises the model of efficiency.
You realize that line of reasoning goes both ways, doesn't it? Declaring one as being technologically advanced isn't enough; it has to be backed up.
No doubt the Borg are advanced and powerful, but they keep getting upstaged by members of organization that are not only much less advanced, but also seem to, at times, beat the Borg at their own game and out-adapt the fabled race of adapters! On the other hand, Voyager didn't beat or outwit the Voth; they only got away because they were willingly released by their captors, and even then only after debate.
Except we've seen conventional AQ weapons destroy Breen ships. We can also infer that they're roughly in the same league as familiar powers, simply because they hadn't massacred the AQ when they entered the war. It could be inferred that Breen ships never used transwarp or else they'd be a lot more dangerous tactically. The Breen used projectile weapons, while the Voth could disable a ship without conventional weaponry.
That moon is scary. Commander Koenig was smart to fly it away finally before something really awful happened.
Chakotay seems to be insinuating a millions year old culture.
It's not hard to believe, the Bajorans (although not space faring) and and the Vulcans have both been evidenced in canon as being civilized and record keeping for longer than the last million years.
Dusty Ayres
Commodore
Agreed. The Voth have their own transwarp network, and they only come out of it sometimes.
I think the Voth, one of the few transwarp-capable species we've seen in Star Trek are probably the reason why VOY Season 1-3 space are essentially Borg free. The Voth form an effective border. And while the Kazon are unworthy of assimilation, there's plenty of other species that could contribute to the Borg.
On the other side, I think the Krenim form the other border. If the Borg were an enemy of the Krenim, Annorax would have used the time-ship to erase the Borg civilization from their homeworld (or the original civilization to produce the Borg). The Borg weren't even a variable in those equations (though a transwarp conduit seems to run close there, "The Raven"). Now from S3-S4 we have Borg space at 9500ly length-wise. We don't know where the homeworld is in that range (though I think "Dark Frontier" could give a guesstimate), but it would seem like they only started getting close to Season 4 space more recently. Early S4 races are devastated/fearful of the Borg ("Day of Honor", "The Raven") while later ones seem to show no concern/awareness of the Borg. The Borg can probably detect the temporal anomalies, the civilizations seeming to vanish, and probably don't venture in there. That whole region of space is in temporal flux; it's best to detour around it, which is what Voyager was advised to do and the Borg probably do.
Of course, there is a big WTF involving this. We have a Krenim Empire a bit under 10,000ly from late Season 3 space, and their whole empire can't extend into current Borg space or else Annorax would have hunted the Borg down, yet in "Before and After", by stardates, the Krenim were encountered in late Season 3 space (no Borg), and Kes still being on there so her 8472-induced out-of-control flare of powers couldn't fling the ship across Borg space.
This is actually one of the interesting mapping subjects for Voyager (others being the flight of Voyager vs. the mimic Voyager, Ashes to Ashes, the 2 big Equinox spatial issues, and whatever else I forget at the moment).
On the other side, I think the Krenim form the other border. If the Borg were an enemy of the Krenim, Annorax would have used the time-ship to erase the Borg civilization from their homeworld (or the original civilization to produce the Borg). The Borg weren't even a variable in those equations (though a transwarp conduit seems to run close there, "The Raven"). Now from S3-S4 we have Borg space at 9500ly length-wise. We don't know where the homeworld is in that range (though I think "Dark Frontier" could give a guesstimate), but it would seem like they only started getting close to Season 4 space more recently. Early S4 races are devastated/fearful of the Borg ("Day of Honor", "The Raven") while later ones seem to show no concern/awareness of the Borg. The Borg can probably detect the temporal anomalies, the civilizations seeming to vanish, and probably don't venture in there. That whole region of space is in temporal flux; it's best to detour around it, which is what Voyager was advised to do and the Borg probably do.
Of course, there is a big WTF involving this. We have a Krenim Empire a bit under 10,000ly from late Season 3 space, and their whole empire can't extend into current Borg space or else Annorax would have hunted the Borg down, yet in "Before and After", by stardates, the Krenim were encountered in late Season 3 space (no Borg), and Kes still being on there so her 8472-induced out-of-control flare of powers couldn't fling the ship across Borg space.
This is actually one of the interesting mapping subjects for Voyager (others being the flight of Voyager vs. the mimic Voyager, Ashes to Ashes, the 2 big Equinox spatial issues, and whatever else I forget at the moment).
Pakleds: 'We are Pakleds. We look for things. Things that make us go'
Borg: 'We are the borg, you will be assimilated.'
Pakleds:'Uh-huh'
*long pause*
Borg: 'Well, nice talking to you.' (flys off)
Pakleds: We are strong
65 million years and their ships fly around with nothing more than an advanced warp drive? The fact that they still use ships, ableit big ships? Yes, they were dicking around...
Transwarp. IE Infinite speed. The bit that takes a long time with transwarp is navigating, getting in and out, unless you have a a prefabricated conduit to use that may be part of a vast system of conduits perhaps connected together at some sort of hub.
Evolution happens when you have to overcome nefarious bullshit. The Voth are the top of the foodchain, so they don't need to evolve and probably won't till well after their culture collapses and things ain't so easy.
That's exactly the point Chakotay was making. They had technology on par with the Federation 65 million years ago and fled earth to escape either an ice age or the Moon showing up but here's the real problem... 65 million years ago all these lovely planets Janeway keeps bumping into would have been unusuable Class L buggers (probably not so unusuable and maybe even what they were looking for.) and really it's not like this is Doctor Who where sleeper cells of Siluriansare are waking up and wandering about insisting that they will not share their world with a tasty source of protein.
You understand that the Flintstones have been lying to you and that homosapiens are only like 200 thousand years old and never met any classical dinosaurs while our oldest (discovered) ancestors are almost 6 million years old alling ell short of Dinosaur times.
I remember there was something in the final season of Earth Final Conflict about how the Ativas liked to eat Cavemen back in the day.
I'm just glad that the Thundercats didn't interbreed with the monkey men because I would look shit with whiskers.
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I don't think that they left Earth 65 million years ago, I think what the episode was saying was that somehow a group of dinosaurs survived the Great Impact and managed to evolve into a humanoid form over time (millions of years) and then left Earth with no evidence of their existence remaining. They are several thousand years more advanced than the Feds but their ideology kept them back in tech advancement which is why they aren't UNGODLY powerful.
i posted this on page two.
Chuckles clearly says that they got frightened and buggered off under their own power back in dinosaur times. Of course given the time involved it's altogether possible that they were using prewarp technology to get themselves off earth in massive arks (Hollowed out asteroids?) which had to deal with the light barrier and relativistic effects... Just a theory. but if they had shit shields (a billion tonnes of ice out front?) and most of the crew was asleep they would be plotting a course that didn't take them anywhere near anything dangerous or spooky.
The "Preservers" picked up Native American Villages and deposited them all about space for some reason, but no one mentioned the Preservers in this story.
to refresh...
Here's the script.
http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/318.htm
(All the scripts.)
Cretaceous Era. 145 to 65 million years bc. After the Cretaceous Period, there was no further evidence of any more Hadrosaurs. It took us only a few thousand years to go from living in caves primitives (hundreds depending on your perspective of what a primitive is and if Christian Missionaries where telling your great great great great grand parents that grass skirts were impure at the end of the 17th century or you think that the American wild west or the streets of London town were savage because they didn't have any Starbucks or cell coverage.)
Here's the script.
http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/318.htm
(All the scripts.)
It would still take millions of years for the Hadrosaurs to evolve into sentient beings, since primitive humans would've also have been around back then too (correct me if I'm wrong). Which means the most likely explanation is that the sentient dinosaurs were removed from Earth by some alien power before the proto-humans ran into them.
Otherwise, we'd have a situation like "Chrono Trigger" with the humans at war with the advanced Reptites!
Otherwise, we'd have a situation like "Chrono Trigger" with the humans at war with the advanced Reptites!
The earliest evidence of someone somewhat human which we "come" from is 6 million years old according to googling i did earlier today, but the Homosapiens didn''t rear up till some 200,000 years ago. before that 200 K benchmark, our lineage consisted of homonioids which still shared ancestry with chimpanzees and apes.
Man is relatively new to the planet.
Man is relatively new to the planet.
(Delete--misread something)
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