Were Hikaru Sulu and his daughter estranged?

[Roundabout]

I got the impression that Demora was being modest by answering the question the way that she did.

When Demora was introduced to Kirk, Demora mentioned how her father had told her some interesting stories about him, Kirk. So it did appear, at least to me, that Demora and Sulu had a relatively loving father/daughter relationship. From the entirety of that dialogue, I didn't sense that there was estrangement between daughter and father.

One thing to take from that scene is Sulu and Kirk are kind of estranged. He doesn't know much about his daughter and hasn't seen her since she was young which must be 20 plus years ago from that moment in time. Perhaps they have a feud that matches Shatner and Takei's.


Jason

It is interesting to speculate on the state of Sulu and Kirk's relationship and whether that relationship experienced some kind of estrangement.

Sulu was the only one of the major original characters to leave Kirk's Enterprise to take command of a ship of his own. There could have been any number of reasons that Sulu didn't want to stick with Kirk till the very end of Kirk's days as captain of the Enterprise, like all the others did. But I have to say that Shatner and Takei's real life feud kind of shaped my impression of Sulu and Kirk's relationship.

Especially at the very end of TUC, I couldn't help but think what Shatner and Takei really thought of the other, as Kirk and Sulu traded compliments

Demora Sulu was raised by Hikaru's parents in Belarus after the attack on Khitomer.

So does that mean Demora was actually Worf's foster sister?

If so, that would mean Worf is the second alien Trek character with a long lost human foster sister.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

One thing to take from that scene is Sulu and Kirk are kind of estranged. He doesn't know much about his daughter and hasn't seen her since she was young which must be 20 plus years ago from that moment in time. Perhaps they have a feud that matches Shatner and Takei's.

I really dislike that idea. It's way too meta and cutesy, and it implies that actors can only play characters exactly like their real-life selves. If I saw a Trek story where Kirk and Sulu (or Kirk and Scotty) had a feud that mirrored the real-life animosity that Takei and Doohan have/had for Shatner, it would just take me out of the story.

But Kirk unaware of her existence? Nope, he has merely forgotten, and recalls after a bit of prompting, including recalling the specific time he first/last met her. Nothing to suggest that he would have been unaware in 2281, either, or surprised much, or anything. It's just that Sulu's lifestyle is alien to Kirk...

Yeah, I think this is much more likely. You might know about your coworkers' kids, but that doesn't mean you're running into them all that much. I frankly doubt that the Enterprise had all that many company picnics, and when you're taking shore leave, you're much more likely to spend it with people that you don't hang out with all the time in outer space (Star Trek V notwithstanding).

 

[Timo]

If we want to read things into the dialogue, we might just as well decide Hikaru Sulu is dead, and all the present tense talk about him refers to him looking down at his daughter from the edge of a cloud, judgmental like all ancestors...

The scene is IMHO touching enough at the very surface level, without much need for interpretation.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Jayson1]

One thing I always found kind of weird was in Star Trek 6 is at the end is they didn'y have Sulu on the bridge at helm for the final group shot image before the movie ends. I know Sulu is a captain and all but it seems like you could write a scene were he "transfers" over seeing as how the ship is basically on it's last tour and will be back in spacedock in a matter of days or weeks. Kind of like how in sports you sometimes see a old athlete sign a 1 day contract with a team they use to play for so they can officially retire as a Knick or Yankee or whatever team it might be.

Jason

 

[Jedman67]

So does that mean Demora was actually Worf's foster sister?

According to Jedman's UnAuthorized Star Trek Chronology, yes.

(i.e. no)

 

[FormerLurker]

One thing I always found kind of weird was in Star Trek 6 is at the end is they didn'y have Sulu on the bridge at helm for the final group shot image before the movie ends. I know Sulu is a captain and all but it seems like you could write a scene were he "transfers" over seeing as how the ship is basically on it's last tour and will be back in spacedock in a matter of days or weeks. Kind of like how in sports you sometimes see a old athlete sign a 1 day contract with a team they use to play for so they can officially retire as a Knick or Yankee or whatever team it might be.

Jason

As an aside, this is the one thing I'm actually mad at Broncos owner Pat Bowlen for. The Broncos cut Lyle Alzado, and the only team that would take him on was the Oakland Raiders, the Broncos' long time rivals. When Alzado went to retire before suffering a debilitating injury, he asked Bowlen for just such a contract, and many in Denver seconded the request. Bowlen said no, on the grounds that Alzado had played for the Raiders.

 

[David cgc]

But Kirk unaware of her existence? Nope, he has merely forgotten, and recalls after a bit of prompting, including recalling the specific time he first/last met her.

I'm not even sure Kirk's forgotten about Demora, as such, but just hasn't had cause to update his mental model. "This can't be Sulu's daughter, this is an adult human ensign, Sulu's daughter is a tiny child! Sure, it's been a couple years—" and then Chekov cuts him off at the knees with the "twelve years" factoid. Then Kirk's just in a getting old spiral. "Jeeze, what's happened since I last met Sulu's family? I retired, unretired, met my estranged son, Spock died, became a renegade, my son died, destroyed my ship, Spock undied, stole some whales from the past, got demoted, got a new ship, did another five year mission, learned an important lesson about racism and secured galactic peace for the next generation, retired again... is that all that's I've done in twelve whole years? What's am I doing with my life?"

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Just had another thought on this matter, maybe Demora's 'chilly' response is because she's faced that reaction a lot, with perceived nepotism or belief that she only got to the E-B because of who her father was and not her actual skill and ability.

 

[MAGolding]

I'm not even sure Kirk's forgotten about Demora, as such, but just hasn't had cause to update his mental model. "This can't be Sulu's daughter, this is an adult human ensign, Sulu's daughter is a tiny child! Sure, it's been a couple years—" and then Chekov cuts him off at the knees with the "twelve years" factoid. Then Kirk's just in a getting old spiral. "Jeeze, what's happened since I last met Sulu's family? I retired, unretired, met my estranged son, Spock died, became a renegade, my son died, destroyed my ship, Spock undied, stole some whales from the past, got demoted, got a new ship, did another five year mission, learned an important lesson about racism and secured galactic peace for the next generation, retired again... is that all that's I've done in twelve whole years? What's am I doing with my life?"

You are assuming that TUC happens less than 12 years after WOK and thus Kirk hasn't seen Demora Sulu since before WOK. That is making an assumption, or accepting a common belief, that is not proven by totally canonical data. The chronology of the TOS movie era is quite uncertain.

 

[Timewalker]

Especially at the very end of TUC, I couldn't help but think what Shatner and Takei really thought of the other, as Kirk and Sulu traded compliments

Their dialogue did seem stiff and too polite.

 

[Kamdan]

At the beginning of Star Trek: Generations, when Kirk and Chekov meet Demora Sulu, Kirk said to her, "Your father must be very proud" to which she replied "I hope so, sir" in a somewhat somber manner.

Suprised it took this long to point out that it was Chekov who stated “I'm sure Hikaru must be very proud of you.” Her response of “I hope so” is a common response to when someone makes a statement like that. Nothing there came off estrained or somber from Demora, who is visibly flattered by Kirk’s compliment of “it wouldn’t be the Enterprise without a Sulu at the helm.”

It does feel a little off that Chekov acts suprised when he sees Demora on the bridge. It alway seemed that Sulu and Chekov became close friends after working with each other for so long. It’s very apparent since they took a vacation together in Star Trek V and the fact that Chekov refers to him by his first name. You’d figure he’d already know she was onboard. I think the workprint had Koenig deliver the line “Demora!” in a way that was getting het attention amongst the crowd instead of being suprised.

The situation definitely hit Kirk hard that he failed to make the time for a family when he had plenty of opportunities to have one, especially after tragically losing his son right when he reconciled with him and only got through it by getting himself into his work and now he’s at the end of his rope by being at this ceremony that only points out how old he is. I loved how the novel expanded on this point about Kirk spending that 78 years in the Nexus righting every wrong he ever made in his life, but every time he achieved happiness, he would want to do something else, which was why Kirk in the real world could never settle down in one place.

 

[Nyotarules]

Sulu was the only one of the major original characters to leave Kirk's Enterprise to take command of a ship of his own. There could have been any number of reasons that Sulu didn't want to stick with Kirk till the very end of Kirk's days as captain of the Enterprise, like all the others did

Sulu saw no need for his career to revolve completely around Captain Kirk, the others should have other career paths are well, why did not Kirk encourage them? Chekov went from XO on Reliant to what? Its good for the franchise continuity but poor in universe career moves, like Riker being XO for 15 years!

 

[Timo]

I loved how the novel expanded on this point about Kirk spending that 78 years in the Nexus righting every wrong he ever made in his life, but every time he achieved happiness, he would want to do something else, which was why Kirk in the real world could never settle down in one place.

This does directly contradict the movie, though. In the movie, Kirk only spent a few subjective minutes in the Nexus, never engaging in any activity the audience would not have witnessed. Or if he did, he either utterly forgot about them, or blatantly lied to Picard about it, when asserting that the only thing he had been doing in the past 78 years was to chop wood, starting "right before" Picard's arrival.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamdan]

This does directly contradict the movie, though. In the movie, Kirk only spent a few subjective minutes in the Nexus, never engaging in any activity the audience would not have witnessed. Or if he did, he either utterly forgot about them, or blatantly lied to Picard about it, when asserting that the only thing he had been doing in the past 78 years was to chop wood, starting "right before" Picard's arrival.

Timo Saloniemi

“Time has no meaning here. So if you leave you can go anywhere, any time.”

 

[Timo]

Apparently so. But the novel nevertheless directly contradicts the movie, as described above.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamdan]

Apparently so. But the novel nevertheless directly contradicts the movie, as described above.

Timo Saloniemi

The book added a bit of dialogue that he has also been a thousand other places before as well, so they were covered.

 

[Timo]

Which is fine and well as an alternate take on the events, one at odds with the movie - but sort of takes away from the idea of a timeless realm. Having 78 years feel like one minute is quite intriguing. Although the opposite wouldn't be too bad, either!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[valkyrie013]

If that was true, then that would mean that Starfleet is filled with Deadbeat Dads.. Thats a non starter with me. Carol Asked The Kirk to stay away from them, as they aparently fell out of love, and she didn't want a bad influence, but Kirk did try to follow his son's progress from a far.
Now, having read the book, or atleast the synopsis, Sulu tried to give Demora as much time as possible as a father. I would think him sticking around to fly the Enterprise while in the Academy's employ, as a way to stay close to Earth to raise Demora. And him taking the Excelsior command, was after Demora went into the Academy, timeline wise.