Were any Galaxy Class ships lost at Wolf 359?

[Anwar]

Three people survived it, if you count Voyager. In one episode a woman who escaped the Borg said she was assimilated at Wolf 359. As I recall, she said she was on the Rosevelt. But it's unclear how she survived. Her being there makes ZERO sense. Another Voyager fuck up where the writers didn't seem to care what they wrote.

BOBW did the same thing. It was never explained in that episode what happened to the Jouret IV colony and its inhabitants or what happened to the crew of the freighter that alerted the Enterprise to the Borg's presence.

Most likely, after they destroyed the armada and assimilated some of the survivors in the lifepods or people they beamed off the ships (why not?) the Cube loaded them onto one of those Escape Spheres the Cubes have and sent it back to the Delta Quadrant.

We know there were other Borg vessels in the Alpha Quadrant after BOBW from "I, Borg" and "Descent" and that the Borg had created conduits for quick travel between the Alpha and Delta Quadrants from "Descent". It all adds up that the Borg could assimilate people at Wolf 359 and send them away.

 

[F. King Daniel]

IIRC, accoring to the novel Vendetta, Hanson's flagship was Galaxy-class.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Three people survived it, if you count Voyager. In one episode a woman who escaped the Borg said she was assimilated at Wolf 359. As I recall, she said she was on the Rosevelt. But it's unclear how she survived. Her being there makes ZERO sense. Another Voyager fuck up where the writers didn't seem to care what they wrote.

Most likely, after they destroyed the armada and assimilated some of the survivors in the lifepods or people they beamed off the ships (why not?) the Cube loaded them onto one of those Escape Spheres the Cubes have and sent it back to the Delta Quadrant.

That's kind of plausible, but I personally hate having to use the retroactive changes to the Borg that came from giant shits First Contact and Voyager took on them. After all, if that was the case, the Borg could have bailed earlier or maybe even had a second sphere or for goodness sakes could have used it as a second more menueverable attack vessel.

We know there were other Borg vessels in the Alpha Quadrant after BOBW from "I, Borg" and "Descent" and that the Borg had created conduits for quick travel between the Alpha and Delta Quadrants from "Descent". It all adds up that the Borg could assimilate people at Wolf 359 and send them away.

I can't buy that. If this were the case, then why engage the fleet at all? Why outrun the Enterprise at all? Why not just hop into a conduit and go directly to Earth, catching everybody off gaurd with no advance warning? That would still leave time to assimilate Picard to fascilitate the takeover and not have ships get there to battle them. In fact, why even bother with the fascilitation at all, why not forego the Enterprise and Picard alltogether and just hop int oa conduit and go straight to Earth and assimilate it like they have any other world.

I can't speak for "I, Borg" because it has been too long since I have seen it, but do we count "Descent"? That was, afterall, an off-shoot of self-aware Borg lead by Lore, which had not only personal firing weapons on themselves, but a totally different vessel design and apparance. Couldn't this just be something they were using? I know that huge steaming pile of series Voyarer later introduced the idea (I seem to recall these were fixed hub points).

 

[Anwar]

That's kind of plausible, but I personally hate having to use the retroactive changes to the Borg that came from giant shits First Contact and Voyager took on them. After all, if that was the case, the Borg could have bailed earlier or maybe even had a second sphere or for goodness sakes could have used it as a second more menueverable attack vessel.

The escape spheres are pretty flimsy and easily destroyed. After all, they are basically Borg escape pods. And if they dispatched it after the battle, they wouldn't have had it with them to escape the Cube on at the end of BOBW.

I can't buy that. If this were the case, then why engage the fleet at all? Why outrun the Enterprise at all?

Because they didn't have the particular conduit right to Earth at that time, they built it later after repeated defeats.

I can't speak for "I Borg" because it has been too long since I have seen it, but do we count "Descent"[/b]?

Hugh was picked up by another Borg vessel at the end of "I, Borg" and it was mentioned Lore found them and their vessel malfunctioning in "Descent" so they had to have done something with the original Borg ship Hugh's group had.

 

[Ithekro]

I Borg lists two seperate Borg scout ships. The one with five crew that Hugh was part of that crashed, and the other take later picked Hugh up. This wasn't the same ship as Lore was using, since Enterprise had observed the one that picked up Hugh.

 

[Anwar]

I Borg lists two seperate Borg scout ships. The one with five crew that Hugh was part of that crashed, and the other take later picked Hugh up. This wasn't the same ship as Lore was using, since Enterprise had observed the one that picked up Hugh.

Seeing how there were hundreds of renegade Borg under Lore's command, they had to have taken him back to a larger vessel or facility.

 

[tharpdevenport]

There's no evidence the sphere's are escape vessels or flimsy, particularly in TNG's time. They became vulnerable to quantum torpedoes, especially barrages mixed with standard photon torpedoes leaving them unable to adaprt fast enough.

I recall one sphere in Voyager being a scout ship, not an escape vessel. And there was never any indication such vessels existed in the TNG time period, since the Borg did radically change in many ways since then.

 

[Ithekro]

Transwarp beaming.

 

[tharpdevenport]

Not unless they've assimilated JJ Abrams.

 

[Ithekro]

Site to Site Transwarp beaming within the quadrant. Makes as much sense as anything else does.

 

[Anwar]

There's no evidence the sphere's are escape vessels or flimsy, particularly in TNG's time. They became vulnerable to quantum torpedoes, especially barrages mixed with standard photon torpedoes leaving them unable to adaprt fast enough.

I recall one sphere in Voyager being a scout ship, not an escape vessel. And there was never any indication such vessels existed in the TNG time period, since the Borg did radically change in many ways since then.

The Borg Scout ship was plenty flimsy, and in Voyager we saw the Tactical Sphere which is a different thing from an Escape Sphere.

If there are tiny Scout Ships, I don't see why there wouldn't be Escape Spheres either.

The Voyager double standards are kind of annoying though. No one cares that Crusher destroyed the Renegade Borg ship (which was equal in power to a Cube) but people get angry when Voyager destroyed a Borg Probe ship.

 

[tharpdevenport]

There's no evidence the sphere's are escape vessels or flimsy, particularly in TNG's time. They became vulnerable to quantum torpedoes, especially barrages mixed with standard photon torpedoes leaving them unable to adaprt fast enough.

I recall one sphere in Voyager being a scout ship, not an escape vessel. And there was never any indication such vessels existed in the TNG time period, since the Borg did radically change in many ways since then.

The Borg Scout ship was plenty flimsy, and in Voyager we saw the Tactical Sphere which is a different thing from an Escape Sphere.

They are not flimsy, if they exist, in TNG's time, since there are only photo torpedoes being used by the Enterprise and apparently the entire Wolf fleet.

If there are tiny Scout Ships, I don't see why there wouldn't be Escape Spheres either.

Why is it an escape sphere? Nothing about that is said. It could be a vessel inside a vessel for long-range tactical, extra assimilation help, etc. Since when do the Borg need to escape? They only escaped/cut-and-run during Species 8472 battles.

And since when would a small escape vessel have the capabilities to generate time travel?

The Voyager double standards are kind of annoying though. No one cares that Crusher destroyed the Renegade Borg ship (which was equal in power to a Cube) but people get angry when Voyager destroyed a Borg Probe ship.

Crusher used the explosive corona to destroy that Borg ship. It had no chance. The Enterprise had new experimental sheilding that blocked it all out.

All Janeway had was a small amount of quantum torpedoes and writers who didn't seem to care. I don't buy it anymore than I bought the Enterprise E taking out that small sphere for a few quantum torpedo shots.

 

[Timo]

The general assumption here seems to be that the Borg have classes of ships, like Starfleet does. But that isn't a particularly natural assumption - nor is it one that our heroes would make.

Remember "Best of Both Worlds": our heroes encounter their second Borg vessel ever, and Data measures its dimensions. Finding those identical to the ones encountered an impossible distance away, he deduces this might be the very same individual Borg ship; the other heroes agree.

Surely such a deduction would be illogical for any other adversary vessel: if a ship looking like, say, K't'inga was encountered only a second time, but decades of high-warp travel away from the previous encounter just one year ago, the natural assumption would be that those are two ships of the same class. But with the Borg, Data is in fact being rational.

What was learned of the Borg ship in "Q Who?" was that it was decentralized; it assimilated new technologies; and it could self-repair in a matter of minutes after disastrous (20%) damage. A ship like this could well be expected to look very different a few years later! Conversely, that the "BoBW" ship looks so similar in dimensions and shape suggests it's the very same one, as other ships would be in different stages of their life and evolution.

Given the incredible rate at which that 20% damage is repaired (big holes vaporized by phasers disappear, as if material came out of nowhere), it would be quite possible and very natural for the Borg to simply grow Spheres inside Cubes as needed, or Octagons inside Pyramids, or whatever. Or to grow completely different functions inside ships of identical shape and size.

Sure, the Borg sometimes do battle with whole fleets of identical-looking (but potentially differently sized) Cubes. But that, too, might indicate the great individuality in Borg design that paradoxically follows from their Collective nature. For a specific purpose, such as fighting S8472 or assimilating Bckwtr III, they can grow or evolve a fleet of a dedicated design.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Anwar]

They are not flimsy, if they exist, in TNG's time, since there are only photo torpedoes being used by the Enterprise and apparently the entire Wolf fleet.

A simple crash totaled that one Borg Scout Ship.

Why is it an escape sphere? Nothing about that is said. It could be a vessel inside a vessel for long-range tactical, extra assimilation help, etc. Since when do the Borg need to escape? They only escaped/cut-and-run during Species 8472 battles.

The Borg aren't that strong compared to some of the Species from the TOS and TNG era alone, plenty they'd want to run from. And that it was destroyed so easily says much.

And since when would a small escape vessel have the capabilities to generate time travel?

Kirk did it in a Klingon Scout Ship.

Crusher used the explosive corona to destroy that Borg ship. It had no chance. The Enterprise had new experimental sheilding that blocked it all out.

And if Voyager had used a trick like luring a Borg ship close to a Neutron Star where the gravity destroyed it, or tricked a Borg ship into going inside some Energy Storm that ripped it apart, then the audience would just complain that the Borg should be strong enough to survive such things without a scratch.

All Janeway had was a small amount of quantum torpedoes and writers who didn't seem to care.

Writers who realized that there's nothing wrong with Voyager destroying a Tactically inferior vessel to their own.

Of course, no one cared that First Contact had them destroy that massive Cube with firepower.