Well that could've gone better...

[Rii]

I don't generally hold truck with the absurd notion that suicide is a selfish act; but sometimes it really, really is:

Sydney Morning Herald

Police in Chile say an apparent suicide caused another death as well when a woman jumping from a tall building landed on a cleaning lady below.

Police say Josefina Venizela jumped from the window of the 12th floor of an office building in Antofogasta, in northern Chile.

She fell 40 metres and landed on 56-year-old Luisa Almendares, who happened to be taking out the trash for a bank branch in the patio of the building next door.

[....]

The El Mercurio newspaper reports that the 52-year-old Venizela was carrying medicine and a prescription from a psychiatrist in her purse.

It was funnier when it happened in Amelie.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don't generally hold truck with the absurd notion that suicide is a selfish act

Why not?

 

[Rii]

I don't generally hold truck with the absurd notion that suicide is a selfish act

Why not?

Because I'm not a wanker.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Explain.

The way I see it is: The person committing suicide ends it all, while all of their loved ones have to deal with the aftermath. How is that NOT selfish (to a certain extent)?

 

[thestrangequark]

I don't generally hold truck with the absurd notion that suicide is a selfish act

Why not?

Because while it may appear selfish to an outsider, many suicidal people are so depressed and full of self-loathing that they feel they are a burden on others. They truly feel their friends and loved-ones would be better off without them. That is sad, but not selfish.

 

[Rek]

It's just too bad that women who jumped in the first place didn't find the support she needed for that not to happen.

 

[Rii]

The way I see it is: The person committing suicide ends it all, while all of their loved ones have to deal with the aftermath. How is that NOT selfish (to a certain extent)?

Asking someone suffering from so much mental anguish that they wish to die to remain alive for your sake is the very pinnacle of selfishness. Other people do not exist for your convenience.

 

[Trilliam]

The way I see it is: The person committing suicide ends it all, while all of their loved ones have to deal with the aftermath. How is that NOT selfish (to a certain extent)?

Asking someone suffering from so much mental anguish that they wish to die to remain alive for your sake is the very pinnacle of selfishness. Other people do not exist for your convenience.

You don't ask them to stay alive for your sake... you get them into counselling /treatment to help give them the "tools" to overcome/ deal with the causes of the suicidal ideation. Letting them carry on with their altered thinking and NOT helping them is cruel & inhumane.

 

[Rii]

You don't ask them to stay alive for your sake... you get them into counselling /treatment

Man, and it was just today that I misplaced my time machine.

 

[Trilliam]

You don't ask them to stay alive for your sake... you get them into counselling /treatment

Man, and it was just today that I misplaced my time machine.

BEFORE they do themselves in. Don't you ever notice when a friend or loved one seems to have "flat affect"? Loses interest in stuff that they used to be interested in? Changes in the way they are interatcing with you? Are depressed?

NOt heard of suicide prevention organizations and organisations for helping with depression and mental illness?

 

[Jan]

Just to throw in a comment, much of mental illness is due to brain chemistry imbalance. Speaking of one who had an idiosyncratic reaction to some meds, I can tell you that when your brain chemistry is out of whack you may not even really be aware that your thinking has become warped.

The woman who threw herself off the building may have succumbed to an impulse due to that imbalance.

I can see why onlookers could percieve of suicide as selfish and I've thought much the same in the past, if only because the cleanup has got to ruin somebody's day. These days I'm more compassionate.

Jan

 

[Rii]

BEFORE they do themselves in.

Don't you ever notice when a friend or loved one seems to have "flat affect"? Loses interest in stuff that they used to be interested in? Changes in the way they are interatcing with you? Are depressed?

NOt heard of suicide prevention organizations and organisations for helping with depression and mental illness?

What the fuck are you talking about? How did you get 'family and friends can't/shouldn't intervene' out of 'suicide is not a selfish act'?

You want to play the 'think of your family' line as part of an attempt to dissuade someone from committing suicide, that's fine; but only they can evaluate its merit.

 

[Trilliam]

What the fuck are you talking about? How did you get 'family and friends can't/shouldn't intervene' out of 'suicide is not a selfish act'?

You want to play the 'think of your family' line as part of an attempt to dissuade someone from committing suicide, that's fine; but only they can evaluate its merit.

What on Earth are you talking about?

You mentioned the "time machine". I took that to mean that one can't go back and change what has happened. I was saying (albeit it poorly) that suicide doesn't usually occur in a vacuum. That there often behavioural changes/cues that all is not ok.

BTW, was it really necessary to swear? I didn't swear at you.

 

[Rii]

I can see why onlookers could percieve of suicide as selfish and I've thought much the same in the past

And underlying this common sentiment - held universally by those who haven't committed suicide - is the idea that 'oh, it wasn't that bad, if you weren't so weak you would've found another way to deal with it', as if they know exactly what these people were going through and are comfortable in judging them. It's the very height of hubris. And for the most part folks refrain from saying such things until the person is safely dead and unable to punch them in the face as they so richly deserve.

 

[Trilliam]

- is the idea that 'oh, it wasn't that bad, if you weren't so weak you would've found another way to deal with it'

Or, If only they had been able to "let on"/ felt safe enough with someone to reveal how bad it was, maybe we could have helped them through the "black".

as if they know exactly what these people were going through and are comfortable in judging them. It's the very height of hubris.

Would also argue that this is a grief response on the part of those left behind and feelings of helplessness in the face of the aftermath.

ETA: This is a heavy topic for a Friday afternoon and it's been a long week. I don't know that I have the brain power necessary to discuss it intelligibly.

 

[ed629]

I once saw someone jump from a building, she landed on her feet. She broke both legs, they twisted under her and then she would not stop screaming and moaning. Guess that's what happens when you jump from 5 floors.

 

[Trilliam]

I'd lay odds on that she ended up getting a Mental health assessment as well as having her breaks set.

ETA: can only imagine the pain.

 

[Kestra]

I once heard someone say that suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I think this holds true in many cases, and it's often from depression, some chemical imbalance that could be treated, or circumstances from which it is possible to "come back" from.

However I do believe there are some circumstances where a person is in so much anguish that it can be selfish of others to ask them to continue on. Unless you can help alleviate their suffering in some way it's not really fair to ask them to continue through it, is it? Mind you, I'm not saying people should kill themselves because by and large, I think it's tragic and unnecessary.

 

[od0_ital]

... if only because the cleanup has got to ruin somebody's day.

I saw a thing on Oprah a few years back, about odd businesses, and one of the stories was about the folks who go clean up suicides. Someone found a way to make money from suicides.

And it just made me wonder, Damn, why didn't I think of that?

 

[O'Dib]

I wish I remembered one of my Psych classes, there was a school of thought, or a particular author, who supported his patients' right to come to this decision.