Weird promotion practices

[F. King Daniel]

I'm comparing the first mirror universe story to the first NuUniverse story. Later stories can take a different spin on things, let's compare the first with the first.

And who's to say that Vic wasn't based on someone in DS9?

If you're comparing "Mirror, Mirror" to STXI, you've got to include the prequel, "In a Mirror, Darkly". In that the NX-01 crew breaks up, the ship is destroyed, the USS Defiant from the prime future is aquired, Archer's killed and it ends with Hoshi declaring herself Empress. Also, the Empire is very much in force (with multi-species crews) years before the Federation or Coalition, there are at least nine NX-class ships in the 2150's. Even ignoring all the deviations prior to this episode (an Empire flag is planted on the moon in the 1960's, Shakespeare etc) it's not believable that 100 years later history will be an exact mirror for the prime universe. That the ISS Enterprise looks as it does when they had the Defiant is bewildering enough.

 

[F. King Daniel]

He saved Earth. They promoted him. Welcome to Star Trek, in business since 1966.

And he did it all by himself. Nobody else raised so much as a finger.

We've been over this before.

Sulu performed the manuevering around Titan and led the attack rescuing Kirk, Spock and Pike at the end.

Scotty's warp core ejection plan saved everyone at the end.

Chekov saved Kirk and Sulu (it doesn't matter that you think his use of the transporter was "all wrong", the fact is he did it), and came up with the plan to get the Enterprise into the Sol system without Nero seeing.

Spock's the guy who stole the Jellyfish and used it to wreck the Narada.

Without these people, the mission would have failed. Kirk was their leader, but he's not God. Yet.

In STXI, the crew had more to do (whether essential to the mission or not, in the case of McCoy and Uhura) than in most of the movies. Or even most TOS episodes.

 

[Gepard]

^Psst, kkozoriz's post was called "sarcasm."

 

[Pauln6]

He saved Earth. They promoted him. Welcome to Star Trek, in business since 1966.

And he did it all by himself. Nobody else raised so much as a finger.

We've been over this before.

Sulu performed the manuevering around Titan and led the attack rescuing Kirk, Spock and Pike at the end.

Scotty's warp core ejection plan saved everyone at the end.

Chekov saved Kirk and Sulu (it doesn't matter that you think his use of the transporter was "all wrong", the fact is he did it), and came up with the plan to get the Enterprise into the Sol system without Nero seeing.

Spock's the guy who stole the Jellyfish and used it to wreck the Narada.

Without these people, the mission would have failed. Kirk was their leader, but he's not God. Yet.

In STXI, the crew had more to do (whether essential to the mission or not, in the case of McCoy and Uhura) than in most of the movies. Or even most TOS episodes.

Pulleease - Kirk got a captaincy because he was sleeping with Pike (remember him - the guy who prefers male yeomen?). Watch the movie again - there is more than bromance and hero worship going on there. Pike even says Kirk has a special something that others in Starfleet have lost - a willingness to have sex with whomever it takes (even Gaila) to get what he wants. It all fits.

 

[kkozoriz1]

I'm comparing the first mirror universe story to the first NuUniverse story. Later stories can take a different spin on things, let's compare the first with the first.

And who's to say that Vic wasn't based on someone in DS9?

If you're comparing "Mirror, Mirror" to STXI, you've got to include the prequel, "In a Mirror, Darkly". In that the NX-01 crew breaks up, the ship is destroyed, the USS Defiant from the prime future is aquired, Archer's killed and it ends with Hoshi declaring herself Empress. Also, the Empire is very much in force (with multi-species crews) years before the Federation or Coalition, there are at least nine NX-class ships in the 2150's. Even ignoring all the deviations prior to this episode (an Empire flag is planted on the moon in the 1960's, Shakespeare etc) it's not believable that 100 years later history will be an exact mirror for the prime universe. That the ISS Enterprise looks as it does when they had the Defiant is bewildering enough.

What part of "first" are you having trouble understanding? IAMD is a sequel written decades after the original. I am comparing the original mirror universe story to the original NuUniverse story.

Come back in 30 years and we'll compare the NuUniverse of that time with IAMD.

 

[kkozoriz1]

^Psst, kkozoriz's post was called "sarcasm."

KingDaniel, you wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle plans are here again!"

 

[F. King Daniel]

What part of "first" are you having trouble understanding?

You say STXI fails due to too many coincidences. I say STXI is far more plausible than the mirror universe, owing to the extreme differences in the mirror timeline vs. the 25-years of change in the STXI universe. Like it or not, "In a Mirror, Darkly" is a prequel to "Mirror, Mirror". Whether it was written 30 years later or not has no bearing on the overarching story which, for the TOS and TOS mirror crews to be identical, requires a ridiculous amount of coincidence. You're attempting to pick-and-choose only the parts of Star Trek that back up your arguments. I'm afraid it doesn't work that way.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^Psst, kkozoriz's post was called "sarcasm."

KingDaniel, you wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle plans are here again!"

When you come up with bollocks like "Star Trek is dying a slow death" after the most financially successful Trek movie ever, and "Sales of the novels are falling" when Pocket never reveal to anyone their sales figures and are still merrily churning out around a dozen novels a year, I'm afraid it's hard to see when you're trying to be funny.

 

[kkozoriz1]

^Psst, kkozoriz's post was called "sarcasm."

KingDaniel, you wouldn't see a subtle plan if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord, singing "Subtle plans are here again!"

When you come up with bollocks like "Star Trek is dying a slow death" after the most financially successful Trek movie ever, and "Sales of the novels are falling" when Pocket never reveal to anyone their sales figures and are still merrily churning out around a dozen novels a year, I'm afraid it's hard to see when you're trying to be funny.

Have you looked at the shelf space Trek has in the book stores these days? Have you noticed how the number of releases has dropped? How the non-fiction books have dropped off to near nothing?

The toy tie ins for the movie didn't even make it to the second planned wave before they were cancelled. The first wave can be found in the remaindered bins.

Yes, the movie was successful but the halo effect didn't materialize. There was a bump in interest and there will be another bump when the sequel comes out but as a franchise interest in Trek is declining.

 

[BillJ]

The toy tie ins for the movie didn't even make it to the second planned wave before they were cancelled. The first wave can be found in the remaindered bins.

It didn't help that the Playmates line was very poorly constructed. With the exception of the Enterprise itself. My son has gotten tons of play time with it and it's still ticking.

 

[ST-One]

Have you looked at the shelf space Trek has in the book stores these days? Have you noticed how the number of releases has dropped? How the non-fiction books have dropped off to near nothing?

Ever head of that wonderful new called the internet?
It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of fans bought their books online or as ebooks.
Sites like Memory Alpha and Ex Astris Scientia are quite probably the reason why people won't buy yet another episode guide or Chronology.

The toy tie ins for the movie didn't even make it to the second planned wave before they were cancelled. The first wave can be found in the remaindered bins.

Yeah... the fact that most of the toys were on the cheap side and looked like shit had nothing to do with it, no.

Yes, the movie was successful but the halo effect didn't materialize. There was a bump in interest and there will be another bump when the sequel comes out but as a franchise interest in Trek is declining.

Who cares so long as the films make money and they produce another every few years?

 

[Pauln6]

What part of "first" are you having trouble understanding?

You say STXI fails due to too many coincidences. I say STXI is far more plausible than the mirror universe, owing to the extreme differences in the mirror timeline vs. the 25-years of change in the STXI universe. Like it or not, "In a Mirror, Darkly" is a prequel to "Mirror, Mirror". Whether it was written 30 years later or not has no bearing on the overarching story which, for the TOS and TOS mirror crews to be identical, requires a ridiculous amount of coincidence. You're attempting to pick-and-choose only the parts of Star Trek that back up your arguments. I'm afraid it doesn't work that way.

In fairness, this is true. If the many worlds theory is taken to the nth degree then even universes perpetuated with outrageous coincidences are possible, I'm afraid.

Mind you, I've never liked the many worlds theory. Give me a predetermination paradox any day.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Have you looked at the shelf space Trek has in the book stores these days? Have you noticed how the number of releases has dropped? How the non-fiction books have dropped off to near nothing?

Ever head of that wonderful new called the internet?
It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of fans bought their books online or as ebooks.
Sites like Memory Alpha and Ex Astris Scientia are quite probably the reason why people won't buy yet another episode guide or Chronology.

And yet the same bookstore have much more shelf space dedicated to Star Wars. I guess that Star Wars books aren't available on this new fangled internet.

The amount of space dedicated to SF/Fantasy has actually increased at the book stores in my area and yet Trek is harder to find there. Ever hear of out of sight, out of mind?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

He saved Earth. They promoted him. Welcome to Star Trek, in business since 1966.

And he did it all by himself. Nobody else raised so much as a finger.

You've watched Trek before, right?

Then we're done.

 

[ST-One]

And yet the same bookstore have much more shelf space dedicated to Star Wars.

Are there perhaps more new SW than ST books per year?

 

[kkozoriz1]

And yet the same bookstore have much more shelf space dedicated to Star Wars.

Are there perhaps more new SW than ST books per year?

Not just the new ones, more of the older ones in stock as well.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The only reason there are less Trek books out this year is because the four post-STXI novels were cancelled (due to a backstage dispute between Bad Robot and Pocket Books, ending with the decree that only JJ can tell new nuTrek stories and the novels can only do prequels).

Shelf space not only varies greatly from shop to shop, but also probably has a lot to do with the internet - I've only bought two books from bookshops in the past decade, but I've bought dozens online. Star Trek also pioneered eBooks, with the S.C.E. series in the early 2000's, and currently has much of the last 40 years' worth of books available for download.

 

[kkozoriz1]

There's also fewer books because Pocket cut the number of titles they publish in half.

 

[ST-One]

There's also fewer books because Pocket cut the number of titles they publish in half.

Considering the quality of some of those books, a wise decision.

 

[BillJ]

And yet the same bookstore have much more shelf space dedicated to Star Wars.

Are there perhaps more new SW than ST books per year?

I'm pretty sure they are still pumping out more Star Trek books on an annual basis. I see the same thing in and around Cincinnati, where Star Wars has about three to four shelves worth of books (with many older titles still available) and Star Trek has between one and one and a half shelves with only newer titles available.

Even with the new movie series, Star Trek just isn't as big a draw.