Weird promotion practices

[kkozoriz1]

But that still doesn't say why Scotty abandoned his post and transported to the Enterprise with Kirk. It's not like Kirk needed him to come along. He'd only just met Scott. It was written that way because Scotty had to get on the ship for the crew to be complete, not for any logical reason.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It's likely Spock Prime made him go along. I doubt he'd insist Kirk take command yet let him leave his miracle worker behind.

 

[6079SmithW]

The outpost seemed pretty low key and mostly automated. Scotty probably never had to do much work other than make some repairs and tap a few buttons on a console now and then. Keenser can do that. Why did Kirk bring him along? Don't know. No reason really other than to get the crew all together on the Enterprise. A minor plot contrivance. Is it really a major issue? Its not like the outpost is going to fall apart without Scott there.

 

[Pauln6]

Scotty is on a federation base and has a shuttle with a long range transporter. Both of those should have communcations systems. If the shuttle can beam someone about a light year, then they must have long range equipment. Why did nobody use the communcations equipment there?

I don't know.
Perhaps the station, because it's so close to Vulcan, doesn't have any long-range comm equipment either.

Further, even long range communication can only travel about 22 light years before it has to be routed through a relay (only slightly longer transit time in Enterprise from Earth to Vulcan). All they have to do is fly to a relay station to send an emergency signal from there. If the fleet is out of range of Vulcan at maximum warp, it would take Spock months or even years to reach them at Warp 4.

Lol - what? I'm just playing Devil's Advocate with the silly contrivances used in the movie. It's never stated that Scotty has no long range communcations equipment and how can he get a lock onto the distant, warp-speeding Enterprise without long range equipment?

Even the suggestion that Delta Vega is in the Vulcan system is pretty silly, although I'm not sure how close the nearest (real world) star is to the Vulcan star. Scotty has a shuttle and short range communications and yet has to wait in desperation for a ship to bring him basic supplies in spite of the presence of nearby Vulcan? He couldn't fail to miss the imploding nearby planet but isn't scanning for emergency transponders or the presence of ships (such as Enterprise) within communications range?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Kirk saved Earth. Starfleet always lets you off the hook if you save Earth or do something else particularly cool - this dates back to TOS.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The problem was that the had to end up with Kirk as Captain.

But like I said, Kirk could have been *the* captain without being *A* Captain. You following? He can have the position but not the rank.

As has been pointed out, Kirk was a Lieutenant for most of the film. Simply promote him to Lieutenant Commander and *still* he can be the captain of the ship. They can even call him Captain Kirk. But he wouldn't yet have the RANK of captain, because he hasn't earned it.

 

[Starbreaker]

Captains can't promote people to captain... that would be stupid... and confusing.

 

[kkozoriz1]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. It should have been done as a trilogy. However, as a stand alone origin movie he had to end up as the character people are most familiar with, even at the expense of story logic. The movie was intended for the public at large. They aren't interested in the Further Adventures of Lt. Commander Kirk of the USS Whatever. They want Captain Kirk of the Enterprise. The difference between rank and position is too subtle for a summer blockbuster. You had to end a reboot with everyone in their places. Unfortunate but true in the film world.

 

[ST-One]

And why did Scotty beam to the Enterprise with Kirk, abandoning his post? Why? Because the Enterprise needed a new Chief Engineer and apparently none of the people assigned to her were good enough. So, Scotty had to come along for the ride.

Like McCoy, who had retired from the Starfleet but whom Kirk needed 'badly'? Why? Because Dr. Chapel wasn't good enough?
Or Spock, who only tagged along because he (and apparently only he) had made a connection to V'Ger and only he (although not an engineer) was able to repair that engine imbalance? What's that Scotty good for?

Kirk needed McCoy personally, not professionally. HE needed McCoy, not the ship or the mission, Kirk needed him as a friend and advisor. Kirk Prime recognized this. We haven't seen NuKirk as needing anyone yet.

Now, that is a really good reason to draft his friend back into service.

The question is WHY did Scotty tag along? He's AWOL from his assigned station. There was no reason given in the movie, he just tagged along.

You are right there is no reason given.
Personally, it doesn't bother me. Scotty belongs in the Enterprise's engine room as much as Kirk belongs in her centre seat.

Spock made the connection with V'Ger telepathically. He had his own reasons for seeking it out. As McCoy said, he was lucky that they were going his way.

Spcok is shown working in engineering with Scotty and the rest of the crew. He didn't fix the warp drive by himself, he added his formidable talent to what was already there.

And what a coincidence it was that of all the being in Federation space it was Spock (the touch-telepath) who had made contact with V'Ger.

 

[ST-One]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. It should have been done as a trilogy. However, as a stand alone origin movie he had to end up as the character people are most familiar with, even at the expense of story logic. The movie was intended for the public at large. They aren't interested in the Further Adventures of Lt. Commander Kirk of the USS Whatever. They want Captain Kirk of the Enterprise. The difference between rank and position is too subtle for a summer blockbuster. You had to end a reboot with everyone in their places. Unfortunate but true in the film world.

Well, if not the movie itself at least your little jabs at the intelligence of the general audience are somewhat subtle.

I like Star Trek. I liked it since I've first seen the Enterprise smash Apollo's temple to bits more than 23 years ago. But my liking it has never once hinged on the believability of the rank-system of Starfleet ('where have all the Commodores gone').

 

[Pauln6]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. It should have been done as a trilogy. However, as a stand alone origin movie he had to end up as the character people are most familiar with, even at the expense of story logic. The movie was intended for the public at large. They aren't interested in the Further Adventures of Lt. Commander Kirk of the USS Whatever. They want Captain Kirk of the Enterprise. The difference between rank and position is too subtle for a summer blockbuster. You had to end a reboot with everyone in their places. Unfortunate but true in the film world.

I'm still not seeing the logic here. If there isn't a sequel it doesn't matter a jot if he doesn't hold the rank of captain at the end of the movie, since he is a cadet for the entirety of this movie. If there is a sequel, he can formally take command of the Enterprise a few years later in the opening scene of the movie. Alternatively, if they'd wanted a teaser for a sequel they could have advanced the timeline 4 years at the end of the credits and promoted him to Captain of the Enterprise there. Marvel seems to relish doing that sort of thing.

On the issue of rank as opposed to position - Kirk as a Lt-commander would not be suitable to run the Enterprise as Spock rank was advanced to full commander a few years earlier in this movie than in TOS. So Spock would have out-ranked him.

 

[ST-One]

If there isn't a sequel it doesn't matter a jot if he doesn't hold the rank of captain at the end of the movie,

To this fan it mattered.
I wanted to see him in that centre seat as Captain James T. Kirk.

 

[Pauln6]

If there isn't a sequel it doesn't matter a jot if he doesn't hold the rank of captain at the end of the movie,

To this fan it mattered.
I wanted to see him in that centre seat as Captain James T. Kirk.

It isn't that I didn't want to see him as a captain; it is that I think it is childishly unrealistic to promote him to that rank and position when he has only just graduated. If they had advanced the timeline (even a year would have been enough for me) and then promoted him, I'd be fine with it. Somebody pointed out earlier that they did not know if there would be a sequel so it's not as if the decision to advance the timeline would have had any impact on their ability to write such a sequel later. They chose childishness, wish fulfilment, and instant gratification as the theme. I'd have been happier if they'd adopted a slightly more mature approach, that's all.

 

[UFO]

The question is WHY did Scotty tag along? He's AWOL from his assigned station. There was no reason given in the movie, he just tagged along.

You are right there is no reason given.
Personally, it doesn't bother me. Scotty belongs in the Enterprise's engine room as much as Kirk belongs in her centre seat.

I guess I figured it was so Scotty could install and calibrate his new software. Kirk and Spock Prime must have realised the potential of long range beaming as a weapon against Nero even if not exactly how to use it. Scotty seemed to take over the transporter operation as well.

 

[kkozoriz1]

You are right there is no reason given.
Personally, it doesn't bother me. Scotty belongs in the Enterprise's engine room as much as Kirk belongs in her centre seat.

If there had been a reason for Scotty to tag along that would have been fine. As it was presented he just met up with two people he'd never seen before and left one of them, a non-Starfleet Vulcan as far as he knew, and just left his assigned post for no good reason. Why? We needed to get him to the Enterprise by the end of the movie. It didn't make any sense within the story.

 

[F. King Daniel]

You really need this explained too? Chief Olsen died. Scotty, a Starfleet engineer with the rank of Lt. Commander, took over the engineering department when he came on board the ship. It's extremely likely he came along at the request of Old Spock. Why did Scotty take over? The ship was clearly lacking senior staff, and as Lt. Commander he very likely had seniority in the department.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Trekker4747]

After the events of the main movie they should've just flashed forward another few years to when Kirk was the age he was supposed to be when he took command of the Enterprise. IIRC at the end of the movie we're still around 10 years before when Kirk is supposed to take command of the Enterprise.

 

[Pauln6]

After the events of the main movie they should've just flashed forward another few years to when Kirk was the age he was supposed to be when he took command of the Enterprise. IIRC at the end of the movie we're still around 10 years before when Kirk is supposed to take command of the Enterprise.

If Spock served on Pike's Enterprise for 11 years then it's likely that Kirk took command in 2264 (i.e. 6 years after NuTrek) although most people think he was captain of a different ship before Enterprise, possibly from the age of 29 - still very young, just not as inexperienced as NuKirk.

 

[BillJ]

After the events of the main movie they should've just flashed forward another few years to when Kirk was the age he was supposed to be when he took command of the Enterprise. IIRC at the end of the movie we're still around 10 years before when Kirk is supposed to take command of the Enterprise.

If Spock served on Pike's Enterprise for 11 years then it's likely that Kirk took command in 2264 (i.e. 6 years after NuTrek) although most people think he was captain of a different ship before Enterprise, possibly from the age of 29 - still very young, just not as inexperienced as NuKirk.

Even 29 makes more sense than what the movie gives us. Attending the Academy from 18 - 22, then serving on various assignments (gaining experience) for another seven years before attaining command.

 

[Pauln6]

After the events of the main movie they should've just flashed forward another few years to when Kirk was the age he was supposed to be when he took command of the Enterprise. IIRC at the end of the movie we're still around 10 years before when Kirk is supposed to take command of the Enterprise.

If Spock served on Pike's Enterprise for 11 years then it's likely that Kirk took command in 2264 (i.e. 6 years after NuTrek) although most people think he was captain of a different ship before Enterprise, possibly from the age of 29 - still very young, just not as inexperienced as NuKirk.

Even 29 makes more sense than what the movie gives us. Attending the Academy from 18 - 22, then serving on various assignments (gaining experience) for another seven years before attaining command.

Absolutely! In fairness, with less than 3 hours to tell a story every 3 years they can't get bogged down with minutiae or technobabble and ubernerds need to accept that. Nevertheless, there's no reason why the story they do have time to needs to be majorly dumbed down. Kirk should have been allowed to gain experience before being placed in full command. This wasn't a Disney Xmas children's movie - Trek can take itself moderately seriously and still be entertaining.