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We just got the Animated series........

Re: ST:TAS and canon

The memo, as penned by Richard Arnold, for GR's ST Office in 1989, specified live-action, and as-screened, movies and episodes
And then GR decided that he considered parts of ST V to be "apocryphal".
Bollocks, as Spike would say.:guffaw:
I don't know why fans produce so much angst over "What is canon?" and what isn't.
Because they need direction. Where is Vol when you need him???:lol:
 
Star Trek: Season Two Blu-Ray – September 22nd
The box art below shows off some of the special features, including the special Tribble disk, which appears to include the TAS episode "More Tribbles, More Troubles."
http://trekmovie.com/2009/07/31/box...y-individual-star-trek-movies-on-blu-ray-dvd/


http://img.trekmovie.com/images/merchandise/STTOS_S2_BRD_Back_Oslv.jpg
The actual TOS Blu-ray includes an episode of TAS. If that is not representative that TAS is indeed canon, what is?
 
Let's boil this down to the bare bones, shall we?

TAS was shunted to the side because, at the time, Paramount did not have rights to that material. Nothing to do with anybody being embarassed at working on a cartoon, everything to do with legalities.

Once Paramount got the rights to TAS, as exemplified by the DVD release, TAS was in and counts just as much as any live-action episode, and the cross references started flowing.

Got it?
 
Let's boil this down to the bare bones, shall we?

TAS was shunted to the side because, at the time, Paramount did not have rights to that material. Nothing to do with anybody being embarassed at working on a cartoon, everything to do with legalities.

Once Paramount got the rights to TAS, as exemplified by the DVD release, TAS was in and counts just as much as any live-action episode, and the cross references started flowing.

Got it?

When they made TAS, you're saying Paramount didn't have the rights to the material, so who did? NBC? I didn't know that. What actually transcribed back then? Why didn't PARAMOUNT retain the rights after the show ended (tos). And did that mean that Roddenberry had a payday when Paramount bought the rights back? Or did NBC?

Rob
 
Re: ST:TAS and canon

And then GR decided that he considered parts of ST V to be "apocryphal".
Star Trek VI, too.

Actually no. A wheelchair-bound GR saw the final print of ST VI at an advance screening in the Paramount theatrette, then was taken to the hospital a few hours later, from whence he didn't return. There was no time for the fan-rumoured ranting and raving and telephone calls about Klingon blood and conspiracies in Starfleet, demanding re-edits.

My friend Ernie Over, GR's fulltime carer after his two strokes, was with GR when he saw ST VI and GR's only comment was a subdued, "I think the fans will like it".

GR had previously made negative comments about the script, and had requested that Saavik not be made a conspirator, but he didn't have the time or inclination to declare ST VI "apocryphal" once the film was in the can.

When they made TAS, you're saying Paramount didn't have the rights to the material, so who did? NBC? I didn't know that. What actually transcribed back then? Why didn't PARAMOUNT retain the rights after the show ended (tos). And did that mean that Roddenberry had a payday when Paramount bought the rights back? Or did NBC?

Paramount bought Desilu at the end of Season Two of TOS, and with it got Desilu's share of ST. At some time in the 70s, Gene Roddenberry had the opportunity to buy out Paramount's share, but it would have been a very unwise investment for one man at the time, seeing ST was a dead series at the time, so he opted to sell his share to Paramount. In return he had enough money to have his mansion in the Hollywood Hills and an investment to live on.

But before(?) Paramount owned ST outright, a deal was worked out to license an animated version to the successful tenderer, Filmation, who worked with the co-production of NBC's Children's TV arm and Norway Productions (which, incidentally, was GR's company). Filmation created the original characters of Arex and M'Ress, but when those characters appeared in the Power Records book/comic sets, Power wasn't allowed to use those likenesses. So the contracts for TAS were either very tight, or perhaps way too open to interpretation. Similarly, the license for the "ST Technical Manual" was contractually full of loopholes.

Paramount did not own TAS itself, only TOS and the trademarked elements of that show. Paramount had only looked after the syndication distribution of TAS after its initial run. When TAS was being sold off (partly to Hallmark Greeting Cards, IIRC) in 1989, it's entire back catalog was frozen until the red tape of ownership of all their products could be split up, and given back to the rightful copyright holders. This is normal procedure when a TV production company is wound down. Every contract is different.

There was probably no doubt Paramount would end up owning TAS outright, but the contracts had to be checked to ensure some ex-Filmation artist or production person didn't have reason to make future claims upon Paramount. It was this state of flux that helped to oust Arex and M'Ress from the DC Comics storyline.
 
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Re: ST:TAS and canon

And then GR decided that he considered parts of ST V to be "apocryphal".
Star Trek VI, too.

Actually no. A wheelchair-bound GR saw the final print of ST VI at an advance screening in the Paramount theatrette, then was taken to the hospital a few hours later, from whence he didn't return. There was no time for the fan-rumoured ranting and raving and telephone calls about Klingon blood and conspiracies in Starfleet, demanding re-edits.

My friend Ernie Over, GR's fulltime carer after his two strokes, was with GR when he saw ST VI and GR's only comment was a subdued, "I think the fans will like it".

GR had previously made negative comments about the script, and had requested that Saavik not be made a conspirator, but he didn't have the time or inclination to declare ST VI "apocryphal" once the film was in the can.

When they made TAS, you're saying Paramount didn't have the rights to the material, so who did? NBC? I didn't know that. What actually transcribed back then? Why didn't PARAMOUNT retain the rights after the show ended (tos). And did that mean that Roddenberry had a payday when Paramount bought the rights back? Or did NBC?

Paramount bought Desilu at the end of Season Two of TOS, and with it got Desilu's share of ST. At some time in the 70s, Gene Roddenberry had the opportunity to buy out Paramount's share, but it would have been a very unwise investment for one man at the time, seeing ST was a dead series at the time, so he opted to sell his share to Paramount. In return he had enough money to have his mansion in the Hollywood Hills and an investment to live on.

But before(?) Paramount owned ST outright, a deal was worked out to license an animated version to the successful tenderer, Filmation, who worked with the co-production of NBC's Children's TV arm and Norway Productions (which, incidentally, was GR's company). Filmation created the original characters of Arex and M'Ress, but when those characters appeared in the Power Records book/comic sets, Power wasn't allowed to use those likenesses. So the contracts for TAS were either very tight, or perhaps way too open to interpretation. Similarly, the license for the "ST Technical Manual" was contractually full of loopholes.

Paramount did not own TAS itself, only TOS and the trademarked elements of that show. Paramount had only looked after the syndication distribution of TAS after its initial run. When TAS was being sold off (partly to Hallmark Greeting Cards, IIRC) in 1989, it's entire back catalog was frozen until the red tape of ownership of all their products could be split up, and given back to the rightful copyright holders. This is normal procedure when a TV production company is wound down. Every contract is different.

There was probably no doubt Paramount would end up owning TAS outright, but the contracts had to be checked to ensure some ex-Filmation artist or production person didn't have reason to make future claims upon Paramount. It was this state of flux that helped to oust Arex and M'Ress from the DC Comics storyline.

Great stuff...

In the era when Roddenberry didn't buy back TREK, is that era when it was rumored that Copolla/Lucas were interesting in buying it?

Rob
 
^ Sounds about right, but we're talking the early 70's, when Coppola and Lucas weren't much better off financially than Roddenberry. By the time either of them could've met Paramount's price, Roddenberry had likely already sold out, Francis had his own problems with "Apocolypse Now", and George was off and running with the Wookies.
 
Paramount did not own TAS itself, only TOS and the trademarked elements of that show. Paramount had only looked after the syndication distribution of TAS after its initial run. When TAS was being sold off (partly to Hallmark Greeting Cards, IIRC) in 1989, it's entire back catalog was frozen until the red tape of ownership of all their products could be split up, and given back to the rightful copyright holders. This is normal procedure when a TV production company is wound down. Every contract is different.

There was probably no doubt Paramount would end up owning TAS outright, but the contracts had to be checked to ensure some ex-Filmation artist or production person didn't have reason to make future claims upon Paramount. It was this state of flux that helped to oust Arex and M'Ress from the DC Comics storyline.

There must have been some period when Paramount felt secure in promulgating TAS: It was syndicated in the 1970s, shown on Nickelodeon in the '80s and merchandised as VHS tapes and laserdiscs in mid 1989.
 
There must have been some period when Paramount felt secure in promulgating TAS: It was syndicated in the 1970s, shown on Nickelodeon in the '80s and merchandised as VHS tapes and laserdiscs in mid 1989.

Of course, it was Paramount's job to market TAS in syndication after its initial NBC run, and on Nickleodeon. And the VHS and laser discs only came out once the rights were firmly with Paramount, but by that time TAS had been sidelined out of canon (and DC Comics and Pocket Books) via "that memo" (ie. early 1989 - until GR's death in 1991).
 
Is the actual text of "that memo" available online?

No one's found it, although I know I read quotes from it, and the many arguments for and against its declarations, on pre-Internet print-outs from GEnie and other ST and SF "electronic bulletin boards".

A small section of it is quoted by Robert Greenberger in the lettercol of DC Comics' "Star Trek" Series II, #1, where he is explaining why Arex and M'Ress (and the Series I original characters such as Bearclaw, Konom, Bryce, etc) wouldn't be appearing in Series II. TAS "does not cross over" to the movies, IIRC, was how the memo phrased it.

The memo was sent to the licensees. It wasn't for public consumption.

Certainly you'll get the flavour of the memo in many of Richard Arnold's reponses to canon questions in the old "ST Communicator", magazine of the now-defunct Official ST Fan Club. RA ran a monthly question-and-answer trivia page, answering readers' questions about onscreen ST inconsistencies.
 
I agree that TAS is cool! But I am also a huge VOY fan--to my mind, it comes closest to the original TOS spirit.
 
My favorite episodes of TAS (which I love) are "The Lorelai Signal" (Uhura gets to kick butt!) and "The Survivor." I also quite like "The Jihad" (a very prescient episode) and "The Ambergris Element," though I rarely see them discussed. What I love about TAS is its somber, eerie atmosphere. I also appreciate the enlarged roles for Uhura and Sulu.
 
My favorite episodes of TAS (which I love) are "The Lorelai Signal" (Uhura gets to kick butt!) and "The Survivor." I also quite like "The Jihad" (a very prescient episode) and "The Ambergris Element," though I rarely see them discussed. What I love about TAS is its somber, eerie atmosphere. I also appreciate the enlarged roles for Uhura and Sulu.

Yep..agreed. Those are all good episodes. And yes, though I am not a big fan of either Uhura/Sulu, the did get some much deserved screen time.

Rob
 
That damned memo is beginning to feel like the treaty with the Shelliak. We're constantly being beaten about the head with it, but nobody has more than a clue as to just what's actually in the stupid thing!
 
That damned memo is beginning to feel like the treaty with the Shelliak. We're constantly being beaten about the head with it, but nobody has more than a clue as to just what's actually in the stupid thing!

It only applied between early 1989 and late 1991 anyway. Don't stress about it.

People ask when and why TAS was removed from canon. They ask why the novels and comics had to stop referencing each other during Richard Arnold's tenure as ST Archivist. It was a brief memo to the licencees (at the time of renewal of their contracts) explaining to said licensees what they shouldn't reference in proposals and manuscripts in order to hasten their passage through the approvals stage of publication.

That fans continue to put so much faith into the "What is canon?" question is their problem.
 
I am also a huge VOY fan--to my mind, it comes closest to the original TOS spirit.
Yes, everyone in the galaxy speaks english in that one as well!
:guffaw:

I kid because I love- VOY is very cool with me, I even liked the paradox-filled ending- I like the characters so much I just couldn't get all Temporal-Nazi on it :lol:.
 
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