We haven't had a conversation about tipping in awhile
- Thread starter Alidar Jarok
- Start date
I agree, but that's not what I meant.
"Take care of your people" means "tip well and often".
A
Amaris
Guest
Firstly, what you're saying is that I should buy the server dinner. $9-$12 is a dinner at Steak and Shake. Secondly, now you're asking me to contribute to the server's overall wages when I'm not there. She may make $2.23 to wash the table, but she made $7.23 for the hour that she was around for my table. Keep in mind that there were only a few people in the restaurant, and that she was only required to serve our table once.
As for the tip itself, a hypothetical: If two plates of food comes to $40, and I tip $4.00, that's acceptable. If two plates of food come to $70, and I tip $4.00, that isn't.
Why?
Aside from the price of the food itself, what change in the service is required? Because I pay more for the food I should pay more for the service? When did "I should spend more because I'm already spending more" become a reasonable budgetary decision?
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4f7KiiB6dM[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twnEWSfDjFY[/yt]
A
Amaris
Guest
Ah, Larry David eases the pain. 
To address a point, though, I love to tip, and I love to tip well. When I can be overly generous, I am. When I can't, I still try to leave a respectable tip, because I like the service. The trap is when one puts too much into the amount. It's like when you have to fill out one of those self evaluation forms at work. You're likely to rate yourself higher, than what those around you might rate your performance. It's just the way we are. We want to believe we're doing a great job that is deserving of a great tip. The problem, as mentioned earlier, is what constitutes "great", "fair", and "poor". I don't like percentages because they take nothing but food cost into account, which is not a reliable method of figuring gratuity.
Put it this way: for me, aside from my basic rule of $5 and $1, gratuity is a spur of the moment thing. I've left huge tips for small meals. Keep in mind that my $5 rule applies all of the time, so even if I'm eating alone, and my meal is $8, I'm still leaving a $5 tip as long as the service was good, and it's pretty hard to fuck up a single person dinner order, especially if that person tries to offload some of the burden on the server (which I do).
Also, as Larry does in the video above, if there is an automatic gratuity, that's it. I don't give anything on top of that.
To address a point, though, I love to tip, and I love to tip well. When I can be overly generous, I am. When I can't, I still try to leave a respectable tip, because I like the service. The trap is when one puts too much into the amount. It's like when you have to fill out one of those self evaluation forms at work. You're likely to rate yourself higher, than what those around you might rate your performance. It's just the way we are. We want to believe we're doing a great job that is deserving of a great tip. The problem, as mentioned earlier, is what constitutes "great", "fair", and "poor". I don't like percentages because they take nothing but food cost into account, which is not a reliable method of figuring gratuity.
Put it this way: for me, aside from my basic rule of $5 and $1, gratuity is a spur of the moment thing. I've left huge tips for small meals. Keep in mind that my $5 rule applies all of the time, so even if I'm eating alone, and my meal is $8, I'm still leaving a $5 tip as long as the service was good, and it's pretty hard to fuck up a single person dinner order, especially if that person tries to offload some of the burden on the server (which I do).
Also, as Larry does in the video above, if there is an automatic gratuity, that's it. I don't give anything on top of that.
A really nice waitress at restaurant I've been going once or twice a week for lunch for the past several months quit this week, kind of makes me sad. If tipping is being polite, then I don't understand why you wouldn't do it when someone gives you tasty food and is friendly.
Not the fault of the person offering it though. They are at least as annoyed at having to do that as the customer is for being asked about it.
Not the fault of the person offering it though. They are at least as annoyed at having to do that as the customer is for being asked about it.
Both of those sentences at the end are fine by me.
It's odd though that you tip variably for drivers based on order size (who usually make minimum wage), but have a "flat rate whether $60 or $6" rule for restaurants.
Eh, I'd have probably had the same reaction as her to be honest, just not on the floor.
Last edited:
Agreed,
A
Amaris
Guest
That works for everyone, then.
Not a flat rate, a base rate. It's $5 plus $1 for every friend with me. I usually tip more, but that's the base rate. So if you're a server, and you bring food to the table for me and 3 friends, you're already getting at least $8 from me alone (except in the very rare cases where I'm short). What more do you want?
Really? You'd have considered me cheap for giving you a $5 tip on a $12 meal? If we play the percentages, which people seem to enjoy doing, that's a 40% tip!
And that's generous - lavish even - up to a certain point, but then has less and less value. Now of course, that point is far above most individual's bills.
Well, but unless you left something out of the story, it wasn't $5 on $12, it was $5 on $60.
A
Amaris
Guest
I try to be generous. It feels good to give a hefty tip to a person who has given great service. I want good servers to know that I really appreciate it. The best server I ever had got a $20 tip because not once was my glass empty, and she was so quick to slip in and out with refilled drinks, taking away plates, and she was very polite. Now, I'm sure that's not a lot of money for some people, but for me, that's a LOT of money, but I felt she more than deserved it.
Plus, she walked over and gave me a hug when she saw the $20 under my coffee cup.
Like I said, though, $5 + $1 per friend is my base rate. That's for good service. Great service gets a better tip. The reason I even use such a system is so I can budget out what I plan on spending when I sit down to eat. I always plan ahead for the tip (save for the Steak and Shake incident, that was a very rare misstep).
It was $5 on $60, but that was counting 4 people, 3 of whom didn't leave a tip. It parses out to $15 a piece, though I had a little less than my friends. The thing is, I left a tip from my meal, $5, and I was the one she complained about. That's what irked me. I wanted to stop and ask her why she was upset with me, but I didn't want to embarrass her, as I was likely not meant to hear it.
Believe me, I find not leaving a tip when someone has given me good service to be unconscionable. One of the worst offenders are the aforementioned Amway and church groups.
The church groups are the worst. You get 20 to 30 people, all together, you do everything you can to make them happy, the floors are sticky, the tables are sticky and gloopy from the kids spilling their drinks and ice cream (and the adults can be worse!), they're always asking for refills, and sugar, and cream, and butter, and this order's not to my liking, and can I get some more fries, and finally, FINALLY, when you're all done, and they leave, there's no tip anywhere, save for a fake $20 evangelical tract.
I do have an exception to my base rate. When it comes to really large groups, like say 20+ people, I can't really put out $5 and then $1 for each, because that adds up really fast! I do give about $10 or more whenever I can, because I know that even when my little area is clean (I always bus my own table, it's habit), the rest of the table will look like shit warmed over. At that point, I usually hand the server the tip and apologize for the group, who is usually unaware.
I will never understand how everyone in a large group can just stiff the server and walk away smiling like it was some kind of blessing.
That is a good question. I've heard arguments from both sides, and the biggest argument I've heard from servers is that creating standard wages and taking away the tipping system would hurt both the restaurants and the servers in the end (and the customers who have to eat the higher costs), so...
It's not that I'm not sympathetic to these issues or think there's an easy solution. But everyone has a different idea of what is expected of them! And that expectation is changing all the time.
That's just the thing. Everyone has a different idea of what "tip appropriately" or "tip generously" means. And no one's satisfied with other people's definitions.
Yes, so do I. But since we don't, it's real annoying to have one owner of mediocre restaurants (turns out that he owns two other places that I've tried and not liked
That's true. You think he'd be open to discussing his policies and why he implemented them rather than shutting you down and being pompous about the whole thing, especially when it's kind of an unusual system.
This is a really good question! I do tip by percentages but this is one of those ambiguous social rules to tipping that I don't entirely understand. I'd love to hear some more perspective on this.
I see two solutions here.
Do what I do and eat at places where you bus your own crap. Yeah they'll probably have a tip jar somewhere, and still leave the tip field on the credit card receipt, but it's easy to ignore those and not feel like too much of a jerk. Some of these places are borderline classy. You know... the ones that give you a buzzer to tell you that your order's ready. As a bonus, when the soda machine is out amongst the plebs, you're not stuck with an empty glass while the waitstaff strategically ignores you.
Maybe that's not a fine enough dining experience for some of you. I feel for you. But you're just going to have to wait for solution 2 to become technologically feasible. That's right... Robot Waiters!
Do what I do and eat at places where you bus your own crap. Yeah they'll probably have a tip jar somewhere, and still leave the tip field on the credit card receipt, but it's easy to ignore those and not feel like too much of a jerk. Some of these places are borderline classy. You know... the ones that give you a buzzer to tell you that your order's ready. As a bonus, when the soda machine is out amongst the plebs, you're not stuck with an empty glass while the waitstaff strategically ignores you.
Maybe that's not a fine enough dining experience for some of you. I feel for you. But you're just going to have to wait for solution 2 to become technologically feasible. That's right... Robot Waiters!
Yes but in countries were tipping is not so culturally ingrained , restaurants seem to do ok.
No, it's impossible, food would cost us $1000 a plate...
See, the people arguing that they should be tipped better, and more often, and for crappier service, don't want to really bring up that when it averages out, they do pretty well, all things considered. They don't WANT living wages to replace tips, they do better with tips. Just bitch about the bad ones hoping EVERY tip will become a massive tip, and they'll win. Providing a real wage will REDUCE their income, even if it makes it more steady and predictable.
That other places do this without the food becoming super-expensive isn't really being considered in the conversation. It's certainly something I'd prefer, though.
See, the people arguing that they should be tipped better, and more often, and for crappier service, don't want to really bring up that when it averages out, they do pretty well, all things considered. They don't WANT living wages to replace tips, they do better with tips. Just bitch about the bad ones hoping EVERY tip will become a massive tip, and they'll win. Providing a real wage will REDUCE their income, even if it makes it more steady and predictable.
That other places do this without the food becoming super-expensive isn't really being considered in the conversation. It's certainly something I'd prefer, though.
Servers, the bad ones usually, have this weird sense of entitlement when it comes to tips. Most of them don't seem to realize the reason they are being tipped, which is to provide awesome service to their customers. I've worked with plenty of them; I know the ones that bitch, and I know the ones that don't.
The only time that bad tips really suck for a server is when you know you provided great service. Rather than thinking, "Man, those customers were assholes," it leaves you wondering, "What did I do wrong?" It's disappointing more than anything.
The only time that bad tips really suck for a server is when you know you provided great service. Rather than thinking, "Man, those customers were assholes," it leaves you wondering, "What did I do wrong?" It's disappointing more than anything.
Hence the reason I posted the first picture. For me, the question is always "what could the server have done more?" If the answer is that they couldn't really have done much, a high-end tip is fair. If you have actual complaints, a lower tip is perfectly valid. But a lower tip shouldn't be an excuse to save money.
A
Amaris
Guest
Except that it's arbitrary. It's a tip, not a paycheck. If I feel $5 is a generous tip for good service, why is that wrong? Just because you're not getting the money you think you deserve doesn't mean I think you did poorly, or that you're justified to demand more.
The problem is that tipping by percentage is an industry practice. The server has no idea what your intentions were by your tip; all they have to go by is the percentage. If that percentage is low, it may give them the impression that they did something wrong.
And yes, I do completely understand where you're coming from. In many cases the price of a meal doesn't necessarily reflect the quality or type of service you receive, but in other cases it may. In a more high-end restaurant, for example, servers probably have smaller sections (maybe only 3 or 4 tables at a time) to wait on because they have more steps to follow with each table. In that case, they need to maximize their tips. In a more relaxed setting like a bar, a server might have 10-12 tables at a time, so each individual tip doesn't matter as much because they'll all add up a lot quicker.
And yes, I do completely understand where you're coming from. In many cases the price of a meal doesn't necessarily reflect the quality or type of service you receive, but in other cases it may. In a more high-end restaurant, for example, servers probably have smaller sections (maybe only 3 or 4 tables at a time) to wait on because they have more steps to follow with each table. In that case, they need to maximize their tips. In a more relaxed setting like a bar, a server might have 10-12 tables at a time, so each individual tip doesn't matter as much because they'll all add up a lot quicker.
A
Amaris
Guest
I feel that creating an industry standard, and by percentage, turns it from being a tip into a tax. Something required regardless of level of service. They've set the standard of what I believe to be a fair tip, and force my hand, because if I don't tip "industry standard", then I'm apparently a cheap ass, and that's just not right.
I do understand where you're coming from, as well. Like I said, I love to tip generously, but when it's demanded of me, it changes the relationship between the server and the customer, placing undue pressure on both by the employer.
Similar threads
