Ways in Which The Other Treks Were Better

[Kate Nichols]

Emotion, raw emotion. I'm thinking of the episode where Data creates a daughter. I'm thinking of Captain Pike and the woman go back into the cave at the end, looking young, beautiful and healthy. I always cry at that one.
As for the portrayal of women, I think that TNG had it first with Tasha She was head of security, over Worf. Like Kira, she was a spitfire, sporting the less feminine short short hair, but still having lots of romantic and sexual feelings for men. She even slept with Data.
But, Deep Space Nine has it all over them as far as development and growth of characters, the portrayal of romance(practically non-existent in TOS and TNG), the strong story lines that don't end with the end of a particular episode.

 

[Brennyren]

As for the portrayal of women, I think that TNG had it first with Tasha She was head of security, over Worf. Like Kira, she was a spitfire, sporting the less feminine short short hair, but still having lots of romantic and sexual feelings for men. She even slept with Data.

I don't feel Tasha was an especially impressive female character. She was head of security, sure, but women cops -- Tasha's RL equivalents -- weren't particularly unusual in the 1980s. She wasn't particularly secure in her femininity, wanting Troi to teach her how to be feminine and Data to teach her about sex. She was presented as being strong primarily because of a brutal past. (By contrast, it was never suggested that Kirk or Sisko, as strong-willed men, must have been through a brutal past to make them strong; male strength isn't presented as needing an explanation.) And she was killed off before the character could develop, though that was Crosby's choice, not the producers'.

Kira, of course, was presented as having the same "explanation" for her strength, having been through the brutality of the Occupation (though she fought, rather than survived, suggesting greater innate strength), but she was a better-rounded character from the start: more sure of herself and who she was, more comfortable in her femininity and her sexuality, and with the added facets of a defined culture and faith.

To the extent that TNG presented strong women, they were more in the guest stars, I think: admirals and scientists and engineers. TOS can, to some extent, claim the same, with its female lawyers, scientists, and leaders. Considering the era, the presentation of a woman like T'Pau, a highly regarded planetary official, was pretty radical.

But I do think DS9 was really the first Trek to present a strong woman as a regular character.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

The Cage showed a woman in the command structure, Number One had a muted personality. Kira and Dax were first and second officers. Moreover, Kira was often seen taking the lead in various endeavors, whether it was interrogating Darheel, rescuing Li, arguing policy with the Bajoran government, fighting for Bajoran farmers to keep equipment, hunting down the assassin targeting former Shakar members while pregnant, organizing resistance against Dominion occupation, or advising the Cardassian resistance.

Yes, Kira was more than a step above any second in command in Star Trek.

 

[Brennyren]

Yes, Kira was more than a step above any second in command in Star Trek.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Though the only exception I would make is OG Spock. I mean, he risked a death penalty to give his former captain a decent quality of life, was a key player in any number of outwittings and escapes, and walked into certain death to save his ship and crewmates from the Genesis device. (He got better, yes, but he had absolutely no reason to assume that he would!)

Riker, Chakotay, and T'Pol, though? Battling it out for third place. Don't know enough about Saru to know where he would fall.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Though the only exception I would make is OG Spock. I mean, he risked a death penalty to give his former captain a decent quality of life, was a key player in any number of outwittings and escapes, and walked into certain death to save his ship and crewmates from the Genesis device. (He got better, yes, but he had absolutely no reason to assume that he would!)

Perhaps we won't agree on this, but if Kira is only being beaten in her role by Trek's most iconic character, she is still an extraordinary character, in general and as a woman.

 

[Leviathan]

Emotion, raw emotion. I'm thinking of the episode where Data creates a daughter. I'm thinking of Captain Pike and the woman go back into the cave at the end, looking young, beautiful and healthy. I always cry at that one.

Good examples...all of which are humbled by The Visitor.

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[kkt]

The Cage showed a woman in the command structure, Number One had a muted personality.

I don't think Number One in The Cage had anything to apologize for. But it was only a single episode and she was only in command for a few scenes.

TOS can, to some extent, claim the same, with its female lawyers, scientists, and leaders. Considering the era, the presentation of a woman like T'Pau, a highly regarded planetary official, was pretty radical.

And the Romulan captain in "The Enterprise Incident" was highly placed, although perhaps not the best success story for women in command.

 

[Brennyren]

Perhaps we won't agree on this, but if Kira is only being beaten in her role by Trek's most iconic character, she is still an extraordinary character, in general and as a woman.

We definitely do agree! One could do far worse than coming in second to Spock.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Disco and KelvinTrek, for portrayal of gays as something other than deviants breaking local laws, or as something only for twisted "evil" versions of our characters.

Every other Trek ever made, for set design, although perhaps they'd have looked better in colours other than brown.

Every other Trek except TNG, for clothing of the future.

Every Trek aside from Enterprise and Disco, for stories NOT about space wars.

 

[marlboro]

There isn't a single beagle to be found on DS9. Not one.

This is a surprisingly tough question. One, because DS9 is excellent and two because there really isn't a category where I would say the show is the worst compared to other Trek shows. Is Avery Brooks a better actor than PS? No, but he is better than some of the other actors who played captains. Are the makeup effects as good as what you find on ENT? No, but they are lightyears beyond TOS.

If pressed, the only answer I could give is that I think the TNG writers did a better job of writing Worf than the DS9 writers did.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

All the other Treks were paced faster paced, but I don't think that necessarily made any of them better.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

One thing that annoys me in DS9 is overuse of the trope of “Characters get in childish squabble for the week then realize they were being silly”. I’m all for character conflict but not in a manner that makes me lose respect for them as adult professionals. Especially where Worf was involved.

 

[kkt]

There isn't a single beagle to be found on DS9. Not one.

In fact, DS9 was sadly deficient in the pets department in general. No cats, no dogs, no sehlats, no fish.

 

[USS Firefly]

In fact, DS9 was sadly deficient in the pets department in general. No cats, no dogs, no sehlats, no fish.

But they had tribbles!
Thats better then cats or beagles

 

[HugeLobes]

Possibly combat. The number of times Jem Hadar beamed onto the bridge with phasers pointing at the crew and then instead tried to bludgeon our heroes to death was a little ridiculous. Obviously hard to do ranged combat in such a small environment, but still.

Also wasn't a huge fan of starship combat. Seeing the Defiant do these ridiculous CG stunts then cutting to everyone calming seated never felt particularly believable.

 

[Farscape One]

As a person who has alwsys felt DS9 was the best STAR TREK series, I had to think really about this.

There is one thing that DS9 did lack... a sense of wonder and amazement by the lead characters. But I think that is a result of years of STAR TREK being back. TNG sort of lost the sense of wonder by season 3. ENTERPRISE, for all its faults, did bring a lot of that back.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

ENTERPRISE, for all its faults, did bring a lot of that back.

Something for which Enterprise deserved more credit.

 

[Farscape One]

Agreed. I enjoyed ENTERPRISE, and it really got better... season 4 being an excellent season. They hit the perfect formula... 2 and 3 parters virtually the whole way, thereby not only spreading production costs of a story but also expanding the ability to fully tell that story. Standalone peppered in mini-arcs... brilliant.

 

[HugeLobes]

But they had tribbles!
Thats better then cats or beagles

Tell me, do they still sing songs of the Great Beagle Hunt?

 

[USS Firefly]

Tell me, do they still sing songs of the Great Beagle Hunt?

No but they have a musical about cats