Way of the Warrior Station Battle

[Cyke101]

I just realized, in part due to some other poster who shall not be named, but: if Sisko had taken out the Negh'Var, he probably would've killed Martok and Gowron. Two things would then happen: the remnants of the Klingon fleet would attack en masse and surely devastate, if not outright destroy, the station; or the Klingons retreat and full-scale war occurs, further weakening the Alpha Quadrant against the Dominion.

 

[Durek]

JoeZhang said:

TeutonicNights said:
I wonder what happened to those knocked-down warriors in ops. Very nice of them to stay unconscious until the battle was over.
BTW do you think they killed or stunned those Klingons beaming in?

The Klingons are one of those races who never match up to what we are told about them - every fight we see them in, they are creampuffs!

Well Kang wasn't a creampuff either in his prime or when he reached his 100's. He knocked Kirk on his a** in the Original Series, and I don't remember any Klingon doing that to him and he not avenging it. Plus he, Koloth and Kor kicked much a** in 'Blood Oath".

 

[Red Ranger]

Cyke101 said:
I just realized, in part due to some other poster who shall not be named, but: if Sisko had taken out the Negh'Var, he probably would've killed Martok and Gowron. Two things would then happen: the remnants of the Klingon fleet would attack en masse and surely devastate, if not outright destroy, the station; or the Klingons retreat and full-scale war occurs, further weakening the Alpha Quadrant against the Dominion.

Cyke101,

Makes total sense to me. Sisko was trying his best not to destroy all the Klingons. He repeatedly hailed Gowron to see if he was ready to quit, which he eventually did, because even Gowron knew that it was counterproductive to fight both the Cardassians and the Federation. He also didn't, as he said, want to "hand victory to the Dominion."

Red Ranger

 

[Timo]

Also:

...to hold off the superior enemy forces long enough for his support to get there, whose mobile forepower coupled with the stations defenses would prove decisive.

Perhaps more importantly, if Gowron took or destroyed DS9, he could semi-plausibly argue he had merely taken out a Dominion foothold, and that no bona fide Federation citizens were harmed in providing the battle to the audiences. All evidence would be in favor of Sisko and his crew being impostors, their original selves victim to the fake Detapa Council. Even some people on Earth might actually raise a cheer.

But if Gowron continued the fight against Starfleet starships that could not possibly be contaminated by Founder agents, that would be a more blatant act of war against the Federation, not defensible in the slightest.

So the mere presence of the reinforcements, rather than their firepower, could be strategically decisive for Gowron.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[siskokid888]

^ Plus the station had already laid a pretty good ass kicking on the Klingon fleet, a few starfleet ships in conjuction with the station firepower might have done in the Klingons at that point.

 

[Kadratis]

Ezri said:
Klingons are creampuffs ... hmmmm ... what taste filling is inside Worf ...I say vanilla

Perhaps a lilac-scented vanilla?

 

[DumbDumb2007]

was wild ! it if it ever gets remastered then it will be wilder !

 

[Mr_Closet]

Timo said:
But this does beg the question of how the handful of Starfleet ships that were approaching would have been of significance in the battle. Perhaps this thing isn't symmetric: perhaps you need hundreds of ships to overwhelm a space station, but you only need a couple of ships to make life hell for the hundreds of ships that are trying to attack the station?

On a visit to Caernarfon Castle in North Wales, I read about the castle's history in a display in one of the barrack rooms in the north wall. Caernarfon is a very large castle. You could easily arrange several hundred defenders with plenty of elbow room around it's walls, but at some time shortly after it's construction (possibly still during the reign of Edward I) the castle was attacked by a sizeable army which attempted to take it by force over the course of a few days. The only defenders were a mere 21 crossbowmen. They succeeded in repelling repeated attacks from the superior force and the castle was never taken. It should also be remembered that the castles defences were incomplete at the time (very few castle's ever seem to get finished!).

This example underlines the principle that the advantage in an assault always lies with the defender. It's only in a siege situation that the tables are turned, and only if the attacker can fend off relief efforts whilst resupplying himself.

 

[USS KG5]

Mr_Closet said:
It should also be remembered that the castles defences were incomplete at the time (very few castle's ever seem to get finished!).

Caernarfon Castle is great - it is an amazing bit of work.

The funniest thing is its very unfinished in places but the original plan was just daft - if you look around the entrance the main gate passage clearly was supposed to turn to the right after the entrance with a total of six portcullis' defensing the entrance - the other gate formally had a giant ramp leading up to it.

The Welsh castles of Edward I are one of the biggest draws of that country. Ironically one I found rather cool in Wales was not one of Edward's giant castles but the weeny Dolbadarn Castle in Snowdonia - of great historial value but these days a tiny ruin in the middle of the mountains and near that underground power station.

 

[I am not Spock]

If Sisko took out the Negh'Var, chaos would ensue. With Gowron and Martok dead; the Empire would declare all out war on the Federation immediately. As has been pointed out, Sisko was merely trying to hold off the Klingons until the Starfleet cavalry arrived.

Klingons indeed do suck at hand to hand combat. Every time we see them in ground battles, they get their asses handed to them with ease.

 

[Timo]

This example underlines the principle that the advantage in an assault always lies with the defender.

Not necessarily. In 3D space combat, the enveloping attacker would be able to bring more forces to bear against the centrally placed defender than in 2D ground combat, let alone 1D rampart/corridor combat. And the defender might not enjoy the protection of anything comparable to walls in Trek warfare - station shields might not be that much better than starship shields.

The underlying reasons for the current ideas on 3:1 attacker:defender ratio should be understood before generalizing or extrapolating. It indeed used to be more like 5:1 in the past, against a field-fortified defender, or more than 20:1 with ramparts - but perhaps only 1:1 in a general melee with bladed weapons on open ground.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Durek]

I am not Spock said:


Klingons indeed do suck at hand to hand combat. Every time we see them in ground battles, they get their asses handed to them with ease.

Well, to be fair, we've only seen the Klingons against the main characters. However, Chief O'Brien got his butt handed to him. If it wasn't for Worf, Keiko would have been a widow, and Molly an orphan. Kira did well before she got stabbed. Sisko, Dax, and Worf took care of business without a scratch.