Waters of Mars part 2

[Starkers]

Yup there's nothing like a grandparent shooting themselves in the head to push to on to achieve great things...Although at least this way Earth knows what happened on Bowie Base, originally they didn't, so despite the herotic legend around Adilaide I imagine at least some historians might have postulated that the base blew up due to her ineptitute/phychosis!

 

[Cutter John]

All I can figure is that there was a massive government coverup of how she really died. I mean how else could they explain the members of the 'lost' Mars base mysteriously turning up on Earth?

 

[Starkers]

I think the wiki pages mention the Doctor actually, or at least a mysterious figure.

 

[Sci]

I think the wiki pages mention the Doctor actually, or at least a mysterious figure.

The Doctor's mental BBC page actually has a story about "the mythical Doctor." Apparently no attempt to hide his involvement was made.

 

[Phily B]

Wasn't there stuff in Rose about The Doctor on the internet? There was that fella she went to and he had a website about him along with pictures.

It seems that she was still inspired by Adelaide because she saved some of the crew, Earth by blowing the base up and was still a pioneer of space travel.

http://images.wikia.com/tardis/images/d/d4/The_Mythical_Doctor.png

Might not be too far fetched for him to be a bit of an urban legend considering Earth is aware of aliens in the DW universe. I think in the Eleventh Hour they were just taking pictures of them on their phone rather than panicing.

 

[cloneof]

The timeline was put right when Adelaide killed herself.

Umm.. not entirely true since there were two other survivors and the fact the Adelaide was at home when found dead, not dieing heroicly on Mars.

Well if they don't want to sound complete lunatics by talking about a alien with with a police box as a space ship, they still made back to Earth fairly quickly by walking when both of their base and ship is gone. That could be heroic .

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Umm.. not entirely true since there were two other survivors and the fact the Adelaide was at home when found dead, not dieing heroicly on Mars.

Well if they don't want to sound complete lunatics by talking about a alien with with a police box as a space ship, they still made back to Earth fairly quickly by walking when both of their base and ship is gone. That could be heroic .

Well, except that lots of people know about the Doctor and his police box, especially in the government.

 

[DWF]

Well if they don't want to sound complete lunatics by talking about a alien with with a police box as a space ship, they still made back to Earth fairly quickly by walking when both of their base and ship is gone. That could be heroic .

Well, except that lots of people know about the Doctor and his police box, especially in the government.

Well not anymore.

THE BIG BANG
theres also an interesting interview with Moff, about 'The Big Bang'. Where he discusses how NOW, the Doctor Who universe is once again a place where aliens showing up on earth is extremely surprising and new. He basically says how now, post 'Big Bang', the Earth in the Whoiverse is now closer to the real world.

so, what exactly has or hasn't happened in the doctor who universe, now that the series is over? Are all bets off, as far as doctor who 'history' as we know it?
"more like all bets that we feel like ignoring are off. The increasing problem in doctor who is that the people in the show live on a completely different planet from us. They're like 'look, more aliens, planets in the sky, ho hum!'
but history has wibbled. Without being too explicit about it, we can have characters suprised at the existence of aliens again. If we feel like it. But let's be honest - it's only us fans who give a toss about all this. So don't expect any 'history has wibbled' scenes. This is just a way for us all to justify continuity errors to ourselves, so we can sleep at night. Don't all thank me at once. N'night."

This is from an interview in DWM.

 

[RoJoHen]

Man, I jus find Moffat more and more unlikable. Basically, he says, "I'm too lazy to write stories within the established continuity, so I did this so I can cheat and do whatever the hell I want."

 

[Phily B]

RTD used to have people still being surprised/shocked by aliens and then just write it off ala Buffy, the general public and demons/vampires.

Moffatt is right really, it'd suck if they were just like "ho hum more aliens". I'm sure the general public are still aware of it all, and like I said there was stuff on the internet about the Ninth Doctor. Waters of Mars takes place many years into the future too.

 

[DWF]

RTD used to have people still being surprised/shocked by aliens and then just write it off ala Buffy, the general public and demons/vampires.

Moffatt is right really, it'd suck if they were just like "ho hum more aliens". I'm sure the general public are still aware of it all, and like I said there was stuff on the internet about the Ninth Doctor. Waters of Mars takes place many years into the future too.

The Doctor gave Mickey a disc with a program on it ro remove him from the internet.

 

[Count Zero]

But in the episode itself, i. e. Waters of Mars, people are depicted as being fully aware of the existence of aliens, Adelaide cites the Dalek invasion of 2009 as her inspiration to explore space. Besides, UNIT has always been aware of the Doctor, no matter what universe-changing stuff had happened in between. And in the episode itself, the Doctor's mindwiki mentions him, sort of. So, apparently, they did explain how they got to be on Earth and it wasn't suppressed.

As for Moffat, I'd take his comments the same way I took RTD's comments. He also liked to say controversial things. The point is that this show has never cared too much about a consistent canon. The events of The Big Bang are just a means of retconning for those who're interested in that. The writers and producers will just carry on trying to write good stories, just as they've always done.

 

[DWF]

But in the episode itself, i. e. Waters of Mars, people are depicted as being fully aware of the existence of aliens, Adelaide cites the Dalek invasion of 2009 as her inspiration to explore space. Besides, UNIT has always been aware of the Doctor, no matter what universe-changing stuff had happened in between. And in the episode itself, the Doctor's mindwiki mentions him, sort of. So, apparently, they did explain how they got to be on Earth and it wasn't suppressed.

As for Moffat, I'd take his comments the same way I took RTD's comments. He also liked to say controversial things. The point is that this show has never cared too much about a consistent canon. The events of The Big Bang are just a means of retconning for those who're interested in that. The writers and producers will just carry on trying to write good stories, just as they've always done.

Time can be rewritten is somewhat the mantra for the new series and we don't know what effect erasing the Dalek invasion and theft of earth had on future events.

 

[Iamnotspock]

Man, I jus find Moffat more and more unlikable. Basically, he says, "I'm too lazy to write stories within the established continuity, so I did this so I can cheat and do whatever the hell I want."

Or he could be saying; "I, as an intelligent writer, recognise that removing present-day-Earth so far from our own experiences as to ultimately render it recognisable and unrelatable - as well as affecting much of the future history of the Whoniverse - was a massive mistake, so I'm fixing it". In fact, it was RTD who changed the established continuity, which existed for decades before 2005, and featured stories set far in the future in which the existence of aliens came as a complete surprise. The Dalek invasion of 2008 certainly never happened before The Stolen Earth (Henry Van Statten didn't know what a Dalek was in 2012). The whole "time in flux" thing was a result of the Time War - a Davies invention - and Moffat, like all previous producers/showrunners, is certainly free to adhere to and/or ignore it if he wishes.

 

[wamdue]

but isnt present day Earth being kept recongiseable for the sake of the spin-offs?

 

[Count Zero]

The old series also contained stories where Earth was invaded by aliens as far back as the 60s (e.g. The Invasion), so I'd say the reaction to the existence of aliens was whatever the story required it to be. And that's how it will continue to be under Moffat.

 

[DWF]

Man, I jus find Moffat more and more unlikable. Basically, he says, "I'm too lazy to write stories within the established continuity, so I did this so I can cheat and do whatever the hell I want."

Or he could be saying; "I, as an intelligent writer, recognise that removing present-day-Earth so far from our own experiences as to ultimately render it recognisable and unrelatable - as well as affecting much of the future history of the Whoniverse - was a massive mistake, so I'm fixing it". In fact, it was RTD who changed the established continuity, which existed for decades before 2005, and featured stories set far in the future in which the existence of aliens came as a complete surprise. The Dalek invasion of 2008 certainly never happened before The Stolen Earth (Henry Van Statten didn't know what a Dalek was in 2012). The whole "time in flux" thing was a result of the Time War - a Davies invention - and Moffat, like all previous producers/showrunners, is certainly free to adhere to and/or ignore it if he wishes.

I don't think you can say that it's RTD's fault, Genesis Of The Daleks forever altered the history of the Daleks. And I kind of think that the presence of Darvos, the Makra and even the Master means that he didn't just throw away the continuity of the old series.

 

[Mr Light]

Even if you knew aliens existed wouldn't you still be shocked when a monster tries to kill you in person, though?

 

[Nerys Myk]

but isnt present day Earth being kept recongiseable for the sake of the spin-offs?

More for the viewers. Not all of whom care about continuity.

 

[Iamnotspock]

I don't think you can say that it's RTD's fault, Genesis Of The Daleks forever altered the history of the Daleks. And I kind of think that the presence of Darvos, the Makra and even the Master means that he didn't just throw away the continuity of the old series.

I didn't say he did, completely. I'm actually a big fan of RTD, for the most part. I was just pointing out that I think he's much more guilty (for want of a better word) of doing what Jolly Ole Saint RoJo accused Moffat of than Moffat himself. They're not the only ones either, but Russell seemed like a prime choice to use as an example.