Watching Babylon 5 for the first time... *Spoilers, duh*

[Quinton O'Connor]

"The Illusion of Truth"

This is an interesting spin on the already-done documentary-style episode, and I can see why they'd bring it back in the fourth season. I know people are really mixed on whether or not these things are fun, but I've always been squarely in the camp of 'yes' and I've never actually seen one so slanderous before, so that was exciting.

I have to say that I am solidly in the *hate* camp for this episode. And I *loved* "And Now For a Word". Loved it.

But where ANFAW is subtle, TIOT is just hitting you over the head with an iron hammer. Gone is all the interesting details, and instead of venturing into some interesting journalistic issues, all we get is the theme of "JOURNALISTS ARE SLIMEBALLS AND EVIL" rammed into our heads over and over.

ANFAW is a 9/10 episode for me.
TIOT is a 1/10 episode for me. Seriously.

I can't really argue against that statement because I totally see where you're coming from. For me, personally, it's different because I became so engrossed in two key things -- at first the hanging onto dangling hope that the reporter would come around and do something great, and then afterward the shear insanity of the distorted lens we were given. It did something for me I've not seen a television series do before; I've seen several go the 'documentary episode' route but none do so in such a head-spinningly vile way.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Oh, man, I'm all typed-out and I really want to watch another episode. I have indeed seen "Lines of Communication" already (hence the comment about survivors of Zha'dum coming into play during my review of "Epiphanies") but I think I'm going to make matters worse for myself again and not write the review just yet.

God, Delenn is amazing, though.

 

[David cgc]

"And now, they will pay the price."

Due to the conventions of drama, you don't really see the good guys just come out and stomp the bad guys with that level of completeness very often.

 

[chrisspringob]

I actually never really liked the space battle in "Lines of Communications" that much. As I recall, it had a bit too much "exploding consoles" silliness that was a staple of Trek, but which B5 at least sometimes managed to avoid.

 

[Mr Light]

Back in the day I liked "Lines of Communication" just because it was a battle episode. But now... the Drakh look so silly... and I just do not find the Minbari interesting on their own. Plus I never buy Delenn as a bad ass.

 

[Reverend]

Thirdspace.... it has a freakin' beautiful space battle. And the Lovecraftian aliens are cool. So that gets it a pass. But aside from that, meh. Takes way too long for the aliens to show up. And the telepathic takeover is so silly. It doesn't affect any of the command staff, and the possessed don't try to storm C&C they just riot in the corridors Also, funny how none of the STARSHIP crews were affected either. Would have neat if the ships started fighting each other in the middle of fighting the aliens!

All good points. Also, Ivanova has a whole dream sequence and nothing comes of her being 'touched' by the creatures like the others. Of course, I came to terms with that by arriving at the conclusion that the creatures sensed she was too loyal to her cause... or something. Hence the 'dying' bit.

Not much consolation I grant you, but things are made much clearer in the novelization. In a nutshell, Ivanova's dream was actually "them" trying to get to her like they got to Vir. You'll notice that in the dream Vir gave into the...I suppose siren song is a good a word as any...and he fell under their control, where Ivanova on the other hand, resisted and so she didn't go all Cthulhu groupie. As Lyta's race memory wotsit stated, they even turned a bunch of Vorlons during the first incident but it's never really addressed why some are more susceptible than others. Probably has something to do it being more of a subtle processes of seduction rather than a brute force brainwashing. Anyway, it make more sense if you're familiar with the works of H.P. Lovecraft. Dreams and mass hysteria often play a role in this type of story.

Oh and I'm glad I'm not the only one distracted by the overacting security guard!

"The Illusion of Truth"

This is an interesting spin on the already-done documentary-style episode, and I can see why they'd bring it back in the fourth season. I know people are really mixed on whether or not these things are fun, but I've always been squarely in the camp of 'yes' and I've never actually seen one so slanderous before, so that was exciting.

I have to say that I am solidly in the *hate* camp for this episode. And I *loved* "And Now For a Word". Loved it.

But where ANFAW is subtle, TIOT is just hitting you over the head with an iron hammer. Gone is all the interesting details, and instead of venturing into some interesting journalistic issues, all we get is the theme of "JOURNALISTS ARE SLIMEBALLS AND EVIL" rammed into our heads over and over.

ANFAW is a 9/10 episode for me.
TIOT is a 1/10 episode for me. Seriously. This and Season 1's "TKO" are my least favorite B5 episodes.

I don't think the intended message was "JOURNALISTS ARE SLIMEBALLS AND EVIL" so much as "this is how much an immoral journalist cast twist the facts." It's a warning against trusting news sources and a reminder that your prejudices can be used to manipulate you into lines of thinking. It may sound a little paranoid, but just look at recent history. We get CNN and Fox News over here too and I've seen how drastically different reporting can be on opposite sides of the pond.
Also remember that JMS was a journalist himself before he worked in show business (a correspondent for the LA Times as I recall) so the man knows what he's talking about.

 

[Sykonee]

way back in those early days, when dinosaurs still roamed Babylon 5.

Well, giant praying mantises anyway.

 

[Hyperspace05]

"The Illusion of Truth"

This is an interesting spin on the already-done documentary-style episode, and I can see why they'd bring it back in the fourth season. I know people are really mixed on whether or not these things are fun, but I've always been squarely in the camp of 'yes' and I've never actually seen one so slanderous before, so that was exciting.

I have to say that I am solidly in the *hate* camp for this episode. And I *loved* "And Now For a Word". Loved it.

But where ANFAW is subtle, TIOT is just hitting you over the head with an iron hammer. Gone is all the interesting details, and instead of venturing into some interesting journalistic issues, all we get is the theme of "JOURNALISTS ARE SLIMEBALLS AND EVIL" rammed into our heads over and over.

ANFAW is a 9/10 episode for me.
TIOT is a 1/10 episode for me. Seriously. This and Season 1's "TKO" are my least favorite B5 episodes.

I don't think the intended message was "JOURNALISTS ARE SLIMEBALLS AND EVIL" so much as "this is how much an immoral journalist cast twist the facts." It's a warning against trusting news sources and a reminder that your prejudices can be used to manipulate you into lines of thinking. It may sound a little paranoid, but just look at recent history. We get CNN and Fox News over here too and I've seen how drastically different reporting can be on opposite sides of the pond.
Also remember that JMS was a journalist himself before he worked in show business (a correspondent for the LA Times as I recall) so the man knows what he's talking about.

I've heard that argument before. But what TIOT tells us is obvious to me. We all know that journalists and news networks can skew facts. (Or we all should) It has nothing of value to say to me. Such cartoonish villany is just beneath B5. It takes no skill to write something as over the top as this journalist. We learn nothing from seeing it. There was little or no grey ground - he was a pretty obvious creep from square one.

ANFAW is far more subversive (and realistic) in how it has ISN tweak its content. So many layers to peel off. Not here. But oh well - I don't want to sidetrack this thread further.

 

[Reverend]

Apples and oranges. The situation on Earth is radically different at the time of TIoT than it was during ANFaW. Indeed, in part, this episode helps to establish just how insanely Orwellian things have gotten back on Earth and just how far the propaganda machine is willing to go. Two things that the audience will defiantly need to know moving forward.

I'm not saying it's my favourite episode or anything (not even in the top 10 if I were the list making type) but I don't accept that the message was without value or cartoonish. So you already had formed an opinion on journalists, good for you. Not everyone has. Was the guy obviously a snake from the get go? Sure, but so was Cynthia wots-her-face and that blond woman from early season one. Usually though they're just vain, ruthless, career types out for number one. This guy looked like one of them but in fact he was far more cunning and intelligent than he appeared. Personally I rather suspect the greasy snake act was exactly that, an act and it worked. They were all totally blind-sided by the creep. They thought he was a grass snake, turned out he was really a cobra.

 

[Sindatur]

Plus, we have to remember how long ago this was. FOX News (by the left) and MSNBC (by the right) weren't known for their political bias back then, so, it wasn't as ingrained in the Public's mind back then, so, in that manner, it was actually kind of predictive

 

[Mr Light]

Yeah, "Illusion of Truth" kinda became true in the past few years

I don't think it's a bad episode or a good episode. It's alright. I understand the need for it.

 

[Jan]

Oh, man, I'm all typed-out and I really want to watch another episode. I have indeed seen "Lines of Communication" already (hence the comment about survivors of Zha'dum coming into play during my review of "Epiphanies") but I think I'm going to make matters worse for myself again and not write the review just yet.

Waiting...Please don't leave us hanging...

God, Delenn is amazing, though.

I wish Mira would get good parts here in the States. She's such an amazing actress.

Jan

 

[Lindley]

I wish Mira would get good parts here in the States. She's such an amazing actress.

Jan

Yeah, aside from her recurring role on Lost, she hasn't shown up in much has she?

 

[Jan]

I wish Mira would get good parts here in the States. She's such an amazing actress.

Jan

Yeah, aside from her recurring role on Lost, she hasn't shown up in much has she?

Not here in the states but I gather she goes overseas for some plays and at least a few movies.

Jan

 

[DWF]

I wish Mira would get good parts here in the States. She's such an amazing actress.

Jan

Yeah, aside from her recurring role on Lost, she hasn't shown up in much has she?

I saw her on NCIS a year ago I think.

 

[Hyperspace05]

I wish Mira would get good parts here in the States. She's such an amazing actress.

Jan

Yeah, aside from her recurring role on Lost, she hasn't shown up in much has she?

Not here in the states but I gather she goes overseas for some plays and at least a few movies.

Jan

IMDB to the rescue: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001245/

 

[RoJoHen]

Did you stop watching?

I think I've passed you. I'm about to watch the Season 4 finale. I was able to get a lot of watching accomplished this week when I was stuck at home with food poisoning.

 

[Chris_Johnston]

"All Alone in the Night"... not a fan of the alien abduction thing (especially with the way that one Streib we ended up seeing looked so typical for the part)

Whenever the subject of "Best Small Ship in Sci-Fi" comes up, I always post this clip from that episode...

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p04J5N_SEjA[/yt]

And I believe the Streib were named in honor of the author of "Communion", Whitley Streiber.

 

[Reverend]

And I believe the Streib were named in honor of the author of "Communion", Whitley Streiber.

Apparently not.

 

[Jan]

And I believe the Streib were named in honor of the author of "Communion", Whitley Streiber.

Apparently not.

Given the date (10/20/94), I think that post is referring to the alien being sued in "Grail". Regarding the Streibs in "All Alone in the Night" (first aired 2/15/95), JMS wrote in the third script book:

And yes, for those who have wondered, the alien race known as the Streibs in this script were named for alien abduction guru Whitney Strieber.​

Jan