Watching Babylon 5 for the first time... *Spoilers, duh*

[Reverend]

Indeed, as I've mentioned before either in this thread or another, JMS's "plan" was designed with a certain flexibility in mind. I think he was always careful not to paint himself into a corner or get locked into a certain path that would prevent him from utilising a better idea that might occur to him down the road.

I can't say as I noticed O'Hare's blinking and the fact that this was the first time Sheridan was kissed by Delenn (for him at least) had never even occurred to me before.

Catherine. Sakai. Where the hell. Is she?

There's a rather fundamental assumption in that statement. All I can say is, go read 'To Dream in the City of Sorrows'....after you watch 'Grey 17 is Missing'....

[EDIT] Ah, this thread is moving too fast for my slow typing!

 

[Mr Light]

I do remember O'Hare doing very serious hard blinking, but only once or twice.

BTW Jeff what do you think of Marcus? I think he's great fun.

 

[JoeD80]

Sinclair is Valen! This was planned since the dawn of the franchise, wasn't it? JMS seems to insinuate as such

To be clear, he said he thought of it 2/3 into season one.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Reverend, I've decided I'm going to start reading "To Dream" alongside my viewing, to accentuate the liquid awesome that is Babylon 5.

Speaking of how awesome this show is, everywhere I go lately I'm seeing topics about it. Not just here but on other sites I frequent. It's kind of amazing, actually.

Mr Light, I've long-since decided I love Marcus. He was already in the green for me by his second or third episode, but it was the apparently oft-hammered "Exogenesis" that secured him my most sincere admiration.

 

[Jan]

Sinclair is Valen! This was planned since the dawn of the franchise, wasn't it? JMS seems to insinuate as such

To be clear, he said he thought of it 2/3 into season one.

In his introduction to 'Babylon Squared' in the script books, JMS tells how he had to plan for 'War Without End' at the same time and how, depending on various factors, in 'Babylon Squared',they might have been taking the station either foreward or backward in time.

Trivia note: The way that Zathras talked was based on JMS' grandmother who had emigrated from Byelorussia.

Jan

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Trivia note: The way that Zathras talked was based on JMS' grandmother who had emigrated from Byelorussia.

That's pretty cool.

So to double-check, here, everyone is in consensus that reading To Dream In The City Of Sorrows won't spoil me on anything past "Grey 17", correct?

 

[Jan]

Trivia note: The way that Zathras talked was based on JMS' grandmother who had emigrated from Byelorussia.

That's pretty cool.

Apparently with the grandmother, if she didn't like something it included spitting on the floor. Thankfully, JMS left that part out of Zathras.

So to double-check, here, everyone is in consensus that reading To Dream In The City Of Sorrows won't spoil me on anything past "Grey 17", correct?

Not that I recall, but I'm very much not an expert when it comes to the novels. One more trivia note, though..."To Dream..." was written by the then-Mrs. JMS and her access to the Great Maker is evident throughout the book. I highly recommend it.

Jan

 

[Mr Light]

There's a framing device to the novel that takes place immediately after "Gray 17 is Missing", but the actual story takes place during Season Two and Three right up to Sinclair's return to B5 in "War Without End". It also features the first appearance of Ulkesh, the NuKosh who is never named as such on the show but that's him!

 

[Reverend]

^Not quite, IIRC the main narrative cuts off just as Marcus leaves for that Drazi colony (forget the name, but it has a 7 in it) so a little while prior to 'Matters of Honor'. Having said that, some of the fallout from Sinclair's departure is touched on in the framing story...but Jeff will have to find that out how for himself...

Reverend, I've decided I'm going to start reading "To Dream" alongside my viewing, to accentuate the liquid awesome that is Babylon 5.

If you're still interested after that (and I do mean after) you should try and seek out the comic book 'In Valen's Name'. I won't spoil the plot but it acts as a follow-up and a nice bookend/epilogue to both City of Sorrows & War Without End. There's one minor error right at the end that rather spoils what is supposed to be an enigmatic revelation, but if you like I'll explain after you read it.

Also, there's a few other comics that take place immediately prior to 'City of Sorrows' that shows what Sinclair did going from Earth to Minbar. The plot isn't vital reading material (and the artwork is frankly quite poor) but the events are referred to in the novel so they did happen in terms of continuity. I think they were collected in a TPB called "The Price of Peace." While we're on the subject of comics there's also another canon TPB collection called "Shadows Past and Present" that covers how Sinclair and Garibaldi first met amidst that incident on Mars described in 'Messages from Earth'. The framing story is early season 2 so is totally safe to read whenever you like.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Thanks for all the fantastic help, everyone. I've got the book on its way to me but it's going to take a couple of days to arrive at the local bookstore I like to support. I'll certainly have watched "Grey 17 is Missing" by then.

 

[Angel4576]

Just a placeholder here, you absolutely should not buy, read, seek it out or even read anything about it at this point, but soon you should also pick up the novel "The Shadow Within"

Those two are really the only non-trilogy novels that I'd bother with, but damn they're good!

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Noted!

 

[Mr Light]

I believe those comics are out of print and unavailable. I think I sold my B5 comic trade for $20-50 a year or two ago!

I don't think "Shadow Within" is that great. It's written by the woman who wrote the Technomage trilogy which I absolutely adored but I really did not care for the writing or the story of Shadow Within. It felt very "tv" while the trilogy was very "movie".

 

[Reverend]

Noted!

He's right, even the damn cover art is a spoiler! It is worth reading though but it should be kept in mind (without going into any detail) that only the "A-Plot" is considered canon, there's a "B-Plot" that just basically pads the length out and is not strictly in continuity.

Now let's have a moratorium on any further discussion on this topic, at least until after Jeff gets past "that" episode, tempting though it may be.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

"Grey 17 Is Missing"

Can't you just staple posters around the station for this kind of problem?

In the most 'early Babylon 5' episode this season, "Grey 17" is separated into two equal portions. One side is delicious, with a crisp and satisfying aftertaste that makes you want to come back for seconds. The other rots your teeth with its awful, overly-caffeinated bite.

That's right, the Minbari plot is the sprite to Zarg's surge.

We begin our most yin-and-yang hour in ages with a maintenance worker getting sucked down a shaft and I half-expect the opening credits for Fringe to show up instead, but alas, no nookie. At some point during this episode, a leprechaun statue will taunt Garibaldi, a contrived and hard-to-believe weapon's peculiar creation will be foreshadowed by Garibaldi talking about a gun, a lunatic who needs to be punched in the face for spoiling the premise of Jeremiah will not be punched in the face and we'll all learn a valuable lesson about the universe. That's right, folks, tonight's Supernatural was a real hit.

Now that that's out of the way I can focus my attention on the parts I was a Babylon 5 viewer for. It was very Delenn of Delenn to try backing out of leadership and very Neroon of Neroon to finally show his mug again and stir up some intrigue. It was very Lennier of Lennier to find a way around the circumstances, proving once again how nifty he is in the process, and it was very Ron Moorcus of Ron Moorcus to flail about with a pole, get three ribs broken and live to crack a joke that makes even Neroon make weird wooing noises.

The scene at the end of the episode where Garibaldi surprises Sheridan with his tale seems oddly lampshading; it's almost as though JMS recognized the lunacy of one of the plots and told Bruce Boxleitner to muster up his best 'Jeff O'Connor, circa 2011' expression as a reaction to it all.

Talk about a mixed episode. But the good was worth the admission price.

 

[RoJoHen]

What show are you planning to review once you finish B5? Your posts are thoroughly entertaining.

 

[Mr Light]

That half of "Gray 17" is the last truly bad and ridiculous episode until Season Five.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

What show are you planning to review once you finish B5? Your posts are thoroughly entertaining.

Aww, only when I really try.

I'm not sure what show is on the plate just yet. I'd say Fringe, maybe, but I'm actually already about eight episodes into its second season. (Then again, that's exactly where I was in B5 when I started this. Go figure.)

 

[Reverend]

In the most 'early Babylon 5' episode this season, "Grey 17" is separated into two equal portions. One side is delicious, with a crisp and satisfying aftertaste that makes you want to come back for seconds. The other rots your teeth with its awful, overly-caffeinated bite.

I think it's only fair that JMS be allowed to explain himself on this one.

http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-11802

Yeah, I really can't disagree with that analysis. The Jeremiah thread was
one of those things that looks great on paper, but when you get it into a
camera...I dunno, it's one of those weirdnesses that happens in
television. Sometimes you've got what you think is an average script and
it just roars to life on-camera, and something that looks great on paper,
but in real life...ehh...I'm happy with all the other stuff in the
episode, but the Jeremiah thread didn't come off as it should've.

I think in part it's also my fault, in that my brain was gearing up for
the stuff that begins ramping up starting with the next episode, and the
Grey 17 thing was something I'd wanted to do for a long time, and there
wasn't going to be a chance to do it down the road, if at all, after this
season, so I went for it. As for the Zarg, that's also one of those
things that didn't come off visually as I'd wanted. So overall, I'd
agree...of all the season 3 eps, this one is probably the least effective
of them all. But one in a season, that ain't too bad....


jms

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Naw, once a season ain't bad at all, JMS.

Thanks for that, Reverend. Interesting read.