Was this Wrath Of Khan music?

[mos6507]

EDIT: looks like I was incorrect. Patrick points out on pages 114-115 in his thesis that the V'ger Flyover theme "pays more than a passing homage to [...] Herrmann."

I would agree with that. It's kind of in that style but not a direct lift of anything that I can identify. I hear a little Journey to the Center of the Earth with the pipe-organ bits. It's a synthesis. Greater than the sum of its parts.

Horner, when he used the Romeo and Juliet part in Trek III, lifted more like 80-90% of it. I still really like the end result, though. You could think of it almost like a compiled soundtrack I guess. There's creativity in simply knowing what to lift. Ask Quentin Tarantino about that.

 

[tharpdevenport]

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Nothing jumps to mind as being super similar to this. To which franchise are you referring?

In the first twenty secodns we have three:

The opening is partially borrowed from for part of the original "Battlestar Galactica" theme (about 1:18 in):

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The second, starting at 0:08 -- I don't recall the name of at the moment.

And at 0:15 we have part of the "Superman" fanfare (1:48 in):

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[Maurice]

Wow, those are a stretch.

 

[Christopher]

Patrick points out on pages 114-115 in his thesis that the V'ger Flyover theme "pays more than a passing homage to [...] Herrmann."

No doubt he's referring to the rising and falling ostinato in 3/4 time, which is quite similar to Herrmann's Vertigo theme. But of course there's a fundamental difference between drawing on an influence and copying an entire piece of music. All art is built from pre-existing ingredients; originality is in how you put them together. And there are countless chord patterns, ostinati, etc. that recur throughout music.

 

[mos6507]

When I posted King's Row I was claiming it was recycled as the Star Wars Theme. The horn fanfare is very similar (up to a point). When I took an elective film scoring course in college this connection was brought to my attention and I was shocked because I was not literate enough to have heard this (being a GenX nerd). It was a real eye-opener.

Korngold's leitmotif approach provided the template for all of the "big scores" of the 70s and early 80s starting with Star Wars (and of course, moving through Star Trek).

 

[Christopher]

Korngold's leitmotif approach provided the template for all of the "big scores" of the 70s and early 80s starting with Star Wars (and of course, moving through Star Trek).

Korngold's influence goes farther back than that. Gene Roddenberry famously told his TOS composers "Don't give me electronic bleep-bleep music, give me Captain Blood!"

 

[Indysolo]

Horner only copied his own music, not other people's.

He lifted from Prokofiev on numerous occasions.

Go to 2:49 in this video.

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Listen to the start of this. Sound like Kirk entering Spock's quarters?

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Go to 6:58 here for the opening of "Stealing the Enterprise".

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Here he lifts from Benjamin Britten. Go to 11:38.

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3:58 is "Klingon Battle" by Jerry Goldsmith.

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Neil

 

[Christopher]

He lifted from Prokofiev on numerous occasions.

Of course. So did John Williams and plenty of others. All composers have influences. But as I've said, there's a distinction between emulation and direct copying -- between using a similar-sounding melody or chord pattern and using the same exact melody, chords, and orchestration. A work of music can be highly derivative of an earlier work, but as long as it's just different enough, it's not actual plagiarism. (Which I assume is why Joseph LoDuca hasn't been sued into poverty by the countless other composers he "homages.")

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

He lifted from Prokofiev on numerous occasions.

Go to 2:49 in this video.

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Listen to the start of this. Sound like Kirk entering Spock's quarters?

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Go to 6:58 here for the opening of "Stealing the Enterprise".

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Here he lifts from Benjamin Britten. Go to 11:38.

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3:58 is "Klingon Battle" by Jerry Goldsmith.

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Neil

Nell looked like a spaceship with boobs.

Sador's ship looked like a flying toilet seat

 

[mb22]

I recall some of Battle Beyond the Stars in TWOK as well. And of course there is Leonard Rosenman's recycling of the 1978 Lord of the Rings in TVH.

 

[TOMFAN]

I think Horner talked about this on the Aliens DVD, and it was something along the lines of: there had been problems with the production, and so the amount of time he had to write the score was a lot less than he had originally been told.
Therefore he said that he had to recycle some of his older cues (notably for Trek fans, TWOK), because the deadline was so tight.

 

[tharpdevenport]

What happened on "Aliens" was insane. It's a miracle we got the score we did. HEre's an interview/or featurette where Horner talks about it:

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[Gingerbread Demon]

What happened on "Aliens" was insane. It's a miracle we got the score we did. HEre's an interview/or featurette where Horner talks about it:

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OMG thank you so much for sharing this. Fascinating stuff.

 

[Gary Mitchell]

I've noticed it before but I was watching Clear and Present Danger the other day and heard a few pieces of the Aliens soundtrack.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I've noticed it before but I was watching Clear and Present Danger the other day and heard a few pieces of the Aliens soundtrack.

Aaaawwwwwww now you gonna make me go hunt the DVD down in my library .. I like that movie too.

BTW I think the theme music in the Stargate movie has been used in other places. I have heard it on the trailer for Jumanji for one.

 

[tharpdevenport]

According to this listing, the Stargate theme has ended up in at least 22 film trailers:

https://www.soundtrack.net/trailers/frequent/

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

According to this listing, the Stargate theme has ended up in at least 22 film trailers:

https://www.soundtrack.net/trailers/frequent/

Wow.............

 

[Christopher]

BTW I think the theme music in the Stargate movie has been used in other places. I have heard it on the trailer for Jumanji for one.

Lots of trailers use music from existing movies. It's a lot more common than reusing cues in actual other movies.

It happens in TV too. For a long time, the main theme used by NBC Sports broadcasts was actually Randy Edelman's theme for FOX's 1993 sci-fi Western series The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr. I always wondered what kind of deal they had to make to achieve that (although the show had been cancelled by then).

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Lots of trailers use music from existing movies. It's a lot more common than reusing cues in actual other movies.

It happens in TV too. For a long time, the main theme used by NBC Sports broadcasts was actually Randy Edelman's theme for FOX's 1993 sci-fi Western series The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr. I always wondered what kind of deal they had to make to achieve that (although the show had been cancelled by then).

OMG I used to love that show. Did it have an ending?

 

[Christopher]

OMG I used to love that show. Did it have an ending?

Brisco County? Well, sort of, in the sense that the network made it wrap up its recurring story arc with an early climax and then just keep going for a few more episodes with a theoretically new story arc that never really went anywhere. It was a weird structure. There was a big 2-part season (and as it turned out, series) finale, but it wasn't wrapping up a specific story arc, just bringing back most of the main recurring characters for one really big romp. This was before shows really had heavy serialization, so it was mostly an episodic show where the main arc just cropped up every so often.