Was the Prime Directive (PD) broken by Janeway?

[Dancing Doctor]

^And you can be secure that your smarmy attitude is apparently the way that Command decided to deal with all of these violations.

 

[scotthm]

Admiral Valeris said:
^I think that the ends do not justify the means.

Who must you justify them to? Yourself? To those you've saved from destruction? Or to those sworn to destroy you and your world?

I agree that the ends don't always justify the means, but when the alternative to doing what's necessary means the destruction of all life in your galaxy you'll find scant few who care. And what if they do? You'd have the satisfaction of knowing that but for your efforts they'd be dead and forgotten.

I think that Janeway's principles were too mutable.

Oh, there's no doubt about that. The one thing about them that did remain constant was that they were detrimental to Voyager's quick return to the Alpha Quadrant.

---------------

 

[Unicron]

Admiral Valeris said:

The Directive states that members of the Starfleet must not interfere in the internal affairs of another species, or the natural development of pre-warp civilizations, either by direct intervention, or the revelation of technology (including the means to create such technology) to the inhabitants. When studying a planet's civilization, particularly during a planetary survey, the Prime Directive makes it clear that there are to be: "No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development of said planet. No references to space, other worlds, or advanced civilizations..." (TOS: "Bread and Circuses")

Starfleet officers are required to understand that allowing cultures to develop on their own is an important right and therefore must make any sacrifice to protect cultures from contamination, even at the cost of their own lives.

In all, there are 47 sub-orders in the Prime Directive. (VOY: "Infinite Regress")

Originally the Directive was a shield for primitive worlds. If such a world was in danger, Starfleet had been known to order ships to save that world, provided it could be done without violating the Directive (TOS: "The Paradise Syndrome").

The Directive was later amended, prohibiting Starfleet officers from intervening even if it would result in the extinction of an entire species or the end of all life on a planet or star system. By the 24th century the Federation had begun applying the Prime Directive to warp-capable species, refusing to interfere in internal matters such as the Klingon Civil War. (TNG: "Pen Pals", "Homeward", "Redemption", "Redemption II")

This comes from Memory Alpha, and I don't completely agree with the bolded part since I can't recall it ever being mentioned as such. I don't think it was even mentioned in "Redemption" (although I could be wrong), since it would have been inapplicable there anyway. There's a considerable difference between not interfering with or contaminating a culture, and simply interacting with that culture. Some of the writers tried to interpret the PD as if there was no difference.

Enrage said:
The only reason that they (Voyager) were able to make peace in "In the Flesh" was because Voyager had sent 8472 back to fluidic space with their tail between their legs. Afterwards, 8472 reevaluated their options and choose to infiltrate the Federation rather than an out and out war. This would never have happened if Janeway hadn't made an alliance with the Borg. They wouldn't have even bother listening to Janeway if she didn't have weapons capable of defeating them.

I agree. As far as 8472 was concerned, they had no reason to assume the DQ wasn't backing the Borg, because the Borg started the war with them. If Voyager had not made the alliance, which was mainly in its own survival interest, then the Borg would have lost and Species 8472 would have destroyed every other race they encountered. It is silly to think they wouldn't have kept going once the Collective was down.

Admiral Valeris, you also have to consider Voyager's specific situation in this. If they were in the AQ backed up by other Federation ships, then I think you could make a case on whether the alliance with the Borg was justified. But Voyager was alone with limited resources, and was passing into the heart of Borg space - who up to then were the greatest threat known. Sitting it out was not a good solution, because it would have either delayed the trip home considerably or Voyager would have had to fight Species 8472 at some point, without the technology they helped the Borg to develop that defeated the aliens.

 

[Enrage]

Admiral Valeris said:
^And you can be secure that your smarmy attitude is apparently the way that Command decided to deal with all of these violations.

Like I said, they're not violations because 8472 committed an act of war (attacking a Star Fleet officer). Janeway had the right to make the alliance as the senior Federation official on the scene.

My "smarmy attitude" is because you can't separate your opinion of it from the legal one. You have yet to give me any legal reason why Janeway couldn't make the alliance. You just keep repeating that she should have tried something else. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a violation of the Prime Directive.

 

[Enrage]

Admiral Valeris said:
So Janeway couldn't have negotiated with Species 8472 (like she did later, after they captured her and her crew), and worked things out? She had to ally with the Borg and try to wipe out another species?

And just how was she supposed to negotiate? The first time Star Fleet ran into 8472 they tried to kill Harry Kim. Then they said that "our galaxy will be purged." Not exactly a great way to start negotiations.

She didn't ally with the Borg to wipe out 8472. Remember that Seven wanted to destroy 8472 and Janeway wanted to make a demonstration so that 8472 would cease the attack. Janeway tried to do her best to limit casualties on all sides. And I think that history proves that she made the correct decision.

Admiral Valeris said:
The Federation was also rather far away. There was ample time for other solutions to have been tried.

Let's do some math. Borg space was 10,000 lights across, as established in "The Gift." Voyager's total journey was 70,000 light year, approximately 50% in the Delta Quadrant, and 50% in the Beta Quadrant. From this we can assume that the Borg controlled approximately 1/4 of the Delta Quadrant. Seeing as 8472 was able to have the Borg on the ropes in the matter of a few weeks, with total elimination in a few more weeks, for a total of about a month to completely eliminate the Borg. Now if it takes one month to clear 1/16 (a quarter of a quadrant) of the galaxy, we can assume it would take 16 months to purge the entire galaxy. But the Borg are the most powerful race known to exist up to this point. I give the Federation about 1 year maximum before it is destroyed. This is assuming that for some reason 8472 allows Voyager to survive more than a few days without Borg help, which is unlikely. That is hardly "ample time."

 

[Kitty Worrier]

Technically, the "technology" she gave the Borg was BORG technology in the first place, so I don't see how she's violating SF regulations about giving away Fed tech.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Kitty Worrier said:
Technically, the "technology" she gave the Borg was BORG technology in the first place, so I don't see how she's violating SF regulations about giving away Fed tech.

It's not that it was Fed tech. It was that it was the equivalent of WMD, really.

 

[Kitty Worrier]

I guess I read the thread wrong, since I thought someone else said she gave him Fed Tech.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Nope. It was modified Borg nanoprobes.

 

[Kitty Worrier]

Um, that's what I was saying....

 

[Dancing Doctor]

I was agreeing.

 

[Westley Pycroft]

She Categorically broke the prime directive, under no circumstances shall they trade weapons let alone create a new one, chakotay was right sod the Borg leave them to it. And you can't beat a good old chakotay story

 

[Sophie74656]

I don't think Janeway ever flat out broke the prime directive. Others have. B'Elanna in Prototype for example.

 

[Nyotarules]

The Borg started the war, Janeway did not violate the Prime Directive but she started off helping the wrong side as she soon discovered.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Did Capt. Katherine Janeway break the PD, in its purest sense, by assisting Fed mortal enemy the Borg, in its war against Species 8472?
At the time, it seemed a good thing to do, put just backing away and looking at the situation from afar-it looks like she broke the PD.
Thoughts?

Isn't the prime directive moot if someone actually asked them for help? The Borg asked, just like the little girl in "Pen Pals"

Like that little girl, the Borg were facing extinction (as was the rest of the galaxy, once the Borg were done with)

 

[Voth commando1]

Species 8472 was immensely powerful and as Kes said was going to kill everything in the Milky Way period.

Sisko got a Romulan ambassador killed for far less a threat.

And DS9 fans think that episode is supposedly the most amazing Trek evuur!

So what was she supposed to do? Let the Borg be destroyed and then let the undine rampage across the Galaxy killing literally everything something they were quite capable and willing to do?

In fact had she let the Borg be destroyed voyager probably would have been destroyed soon after as Species 8472 began their rampage.

 

[Westley Pycroft]

As opposed to the Borg assimilating everything they come in contact with

 

[Guy Gardener]

NECHAYEV: As I understand, it you found a single Borg at a crash site, brought it aboard the Enterprise, studied it, analysed it, and eventually found a way to send it back to the Borg with a programme that would have destroyed the entire collective once and for all. But instead, you nursed the Borg back to health, treated it like a guest, gave it a name, and then sent it home. Why?
PICARD: When Hugh was separated from the Borg collective he began to grow and to evolve into something other than an automaton. He became a person. When that happened, I felt I had no choice but to respect his rights as an individual.
NECHAYEV: Of course you had a choice. You could've taken the opportunity to rid the Federation of a mortal enemy, one that has killed tens of thousands of innocent people, and which may kill even more.
PICARD: No one is more aware of the danger than I am. But I am also bound by my oath and my conscience to uphold certain principles. And I will not sacrifice them in order to
NECHAYEV: Your priority is to safeguard the lives of Federation citizens, not to wrestle with your conscience. Now I want to make it clear that if you have a similar opportunity in the future, an opportunity to destroy the Borg, you are under orders to take advantage of it. Is that understood?
PICARD: Yes, sir.

The Federation should have formerly declared war against the Borg, just to help with taxation and book keeping on the homefront budget reassigning resources, even if there is not money.

"War" is a decision to alter the balance of power.

The Prime Directive is about not altering the balance of power.

Completely incompatible ideologies unless War amends/restricts the Prime Directive.

Anyone fighting against the Borg, or for the Borg is therefore part of the Federation/Borg war and can be related to with a toothless version of the Prime Directive, if at all, within the theatre of conflict.