Was the Prime Directive (PD) broken by Janeway?

[Photon]

Did Capt. Katherine Janeway break the PD, in its purest sense, by assisting Fed mortal enemy the Borg, in its war against Species 8472?
At the time, it seemed a good thing to do, put just backing away and looking at the situation from afar-it looks like she broke the PD.
Thoughts?

 

[Enrage]

No.

The Prime Directive is superseded by the goal of protecting the Federation. 8472 has a stated goal of "purging the galaxy" and had shown the means with which they could do it. They were going eventually going to destroy the Federation if the were not stopped by the Borg. Therefore the Prime Directive doesn't apply, so it's not possible to it to be broken.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Enrage said:
No.

The Prime Directive is superseded by the goal of protecting the Federation. 8472 has a stated goal of "purging the galaxy" and had shown the means with which they could do it. They were going eventually going to destroy the Federation if the were not stopped by the Borg. Therefore the Prime Directive doesn't apply, so it's not possible to it to be broken.

If Species 8472 could even have made their way to the Federation instead of being concerned about the Borg.

The Prime Directive is thrown to the wind when the Federation is threatened, but in this case it applies. She got involved into the affairs of two sovereign entities-banned by the Prime Directive-and she also provided weaponry and technology to aid one side over the other-also banned. She could have continued on and let the Borg be destroyed or hurt, and Species 8472 could have ignored Voyager.

Also, later on, Janeway and crew were able to convince them that humanity and the Federation posed no threat (In The Flesh).

She already has two violations of the Prime Directive on her in this situation, and aiding one species to help attack and possibly wipe out the other, is, while not a violation of the Prime Directive (AFAIK), then at least a serious crime.

 

[Enrage]

8472 was able to decimate the Borg in a matter of weeks. The Borg were within weeks of being completely exterminated. 8472 wanted to "purge the galaxy of weakness." They wouldn't have stopped with the Borg, rather continuing until they had completed their mission.

The only reason that they (Voyager) were able to make peace in "In the Flesh" was because Voyager had sent 8472 back to fluidic space with their tail between their legs. Afterwards, 8472 reevaluated their options and choose to infiltrate the Federation rather than an out and out war. This would never have happened if Janeway hadn't made an alliance with the Borg. They wouldn't have even bother listening to Janeway if she didn't have weapons capable of defeating them.

I disagree that it was a violation of the PD. General Order 24 allows the complete destruction of an entire civilization. It's clear that the PD is not cut an dry. Sisko interfered and got the Romulans involved in the Dominion War. Nothing ever happened to him, which I would take as it wasn't a violation, or Star Fleet doesn't care if the Federation is in clear danger.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Enrage said:
8472 was able to decimate the Borg in a matter of weeks. The Borg were within weeks of being completely exterminated. 8472 wanted to "purge the galaxy of weakness." They wouldn't have stopped with the Borg, rather continuing until they had completed their mission.

The only reason that they (Voyager) were able to make peace in "In the Flesh" was because Voyager had sent 8472 back to fluidic space with their tail between their legs. Afterwards, 8472 reevaluated their options and choose to infiltrate the Federation rather than an out and out war. This would never have happened if Janeway hadn't made an alliance with the Borg. They wouldn't have even bother listening to Janeway if she didn't have weapons capable of defeating them.

So the ends justify the means?

I disagree that it was a violation of the PD. General Order 24 allows the complete destruction of an entire civilization. It's clear that the PD is not cut an dry. Sisko interfered and got the Romulans involved in the Dominion War. Nothing ever happened to him, which I would take as it wasn't a violation, or Star Fleet doesn't care if the Federation is in clear danger.

He never told Command how he got the Romulans involved in the war effort. He deleted all the information regarding that. He violated the Prime Directive as well.

General Order 24 is only to be used under certain circumstances. I don't see what relevance the destruction of a civilization has to do with Janeway's violation of the Prime Directive. The Federation was threatened distantly, and it is doubtful that Species 8472 would have even regarded the Federation as a threat if Janeway hadn't gotten involved.

Regardless of reason or outcome, getting involved in another sovereign territories affairs and assisting one to help decimate the other are violations of if not the spirit (which I think they are) than at least the letter of the law.

 

[Praetorian]

Isn't the Prime Directive original purpose to not interfere in the matters of non-warp people, so that they will develop freely (to avoid stuff that happened during the age of discovery on Earth for example with entire cultures disapearing)? At least that's how I have interpreted it, inspite of some episode seeming to imply that it doesn't matter the development of the people. Like that moment in Redemption part 1, when Piccard doesn't help Gowron, the legitimate chancelor of the Klingon Empire, a major Federation Ally, cause he can't involve himself in the matters of others..yeah right, that makes perfect sense.....NOT.

So I don't see how Janway the PD. On that occasion as least.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

The Directive states that members of the Starfleet must not interfere in the internal affairs of another species, or the natural development of pre-warp civilizations, either by direct intervention, or the revelation of technology (including the means to create such technology) to the inhabitants. When studying a planet's civilization, particularly during a planetary survey, the Prime Directive makes it clear that there are to be: "No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development of said planet. No references to space, other worlds, or advanced civilizations..." (TOS: "Bread and Circuses")

Starfleet officers are required to understand that allowing cultures to develop on their own is an important right and therefore must make any sacrifice to protect cultures from contamination, even at the cost of their own lives.

In all, there are 47 sub-orders in the Prime Directive. (VOY: "Infinite Regress")

Originally the Directive was a shield for primitive worlds. If such a world was in danger, Starfleet had been known to order ships to save that world, provided it could be done without violating the Directive (TOS: "The Paradise Syndrome").

The Directive was later amended, prohibiting Starfleet officers from intervening even if it would result in the extinction of an entire species or the end of all life on a planet or star system. By the 24th century the Federation had begun applying the Prime Directive to warp-capable species, refusing to interfere in internal matters such as the Klingon Civil War. (TNG: "Pen Pals", "Homeward", "Redemption", "Redemption II")

 

[Enrage]

This is simply what it comes down to: 8472 threatened to purge the galaxy of "weakness", in this case meaning all life including the Federation. That is equivalent to a declaration of war. Star Fleet, and Janeway as Star Fleet's representative, has a right to act in their own self-defense. The Prime Directive simply doesn't apply here.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

^8472 didn't learn about the Federation until after Janeway appeared. They were focused on the Borg.

That is not the equivalent of a declaration of war. Janeway's helping the Borg in attacking and possibly killing Species 8472 is. She violated the Prime Directive in at least two, possibly three ways. Their later actions removed the possibility of an attack by Species 8472.

 

[scotthm]

Photon said:
Did Capt. Katherine Janeway break the PD, in its purest sense, by assisting Fed mortal enemy the Borg, in its war against Species 8472?

Not if it was understood that 8472 was a threat to the Federation as well as the Borg. Self defense (even preemptive) is not in and of itself a violation of the PD.

However, Janeway has many other decisions to answer for.

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[Dancing Doctor]

^Like the usage of the equivalent of WMD's against Species 8472?

 

[scotthm]

^If that's what it took to safeguard the Federation, then yes.

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[Dancing Doctor]

But does she have to answer for that?

 

[Enrage]

Uhhh...."You're galaxy will be purged" doesn't mean "You're galaxy will be purged of the Borg." It mean "You're galaxy will be purged of all life." They threatened to destroy all life in galaxy. They were almost finished with the Borg. Once they were done they would have marauded across the galaxy with impunity. The Federation would have no warning and no time to prepare. The alliance was the only way 8472 could have been stopped before they destroyed the Federation.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

So Janeway couldn't have negotiated with Species 8472 (like she did later, after they captured her and her crew), and worked things out? She had to ally with the Borg and try to wipe out another species?

The Federation was also rather far away. There was ample time for other solutions to have been tried.

 

[scotthm]

Admiral Valeris said:

scotthm said:

Admiral Valeris said:
^Like the usage of the equivalent of WMD's against Species 8472?

^If that's what it took to safeguard the Federation, then yes.

But does she have to answer for that?

Probably. I'd say it's a small price to pay to save your civilization, and your civilization would be hard pressed to condemn you for saving them from destruction.

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[Dancing Doctor]

The Federation now only has her word on what happened, since the invasion and "purging" never took place.

 

[scotthm]

^I take it then that you believe Janeway should have declined to save the Federation in order to keep herself out of trouble?

I know she didn't let her crew's welfare stand in the way of her principles, but the Federation is just a little too big for her to ignore.

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[Dancing Doctor]

^I think that the ends do not justify the means.

I think there were other ways of her dealing with this situation beyond aiding the Borg (who have never been trustworthy, as we shown) and interfering.

I think that Janeway's principles were too mutable.

 

[Enrage]

Admiral Valeris said:
I think there were other ways of her dealing with this situation beyond aiding the Borg (who have never been trustworthy, as we shown) and interfering.

I think that Janeway's principles were too mutable.

Now you're confusing the topic. The question was "Did Janeway violate the Prime Directive" not "Did you agree with Janeways decision." You're confusing your opinion with what the Federation's legal opinion would be.

8472 threatened to destroy all life in the galaxy, had the means to do so, and attacked a Star Fleet officer. There's more than enough evidence for a casus belli. Janeway was within rights as the senior Star Fleet officer to make an alliance with the Borg. The Borg may not be trustworthy, but they were less of a threat to Voyager and the Federation than 8472.

Admiral Valeris said:
I think that the ends do not justify the means.

Then you can be secure in the knowledge you would have died with your principles intact.