Was rescuing Icheb a Prime Directive violation?
- Thread starter Tracy Trek
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This makes me think of how Picard made the choice to not send Hugh back to the Borg with a deadly computer program as it was originally planned, to not use him as weapon.
Well, Picard did send Hugh back as a theoretical weapon, albeit with Hugh's consent, just not the stealth, non-consensual weapon that was originally discussed. Picard did speculate (somewhat correctly) that Hugh's indviduality might 'infect' the Borg, and to an unknown extent it did.
Might have been (more) interesting if Icheb wanted to help his people.
Might have been (more) interesting if Icheb wanted to help his people.
There might have been a lottery to see who got infected and thrown at the Borg, or the family got a huge payoff, to send their most useless member against the Borg, and if Icheb was found to have returned, the family probably could have had to have refunded that payoff.
The similarity is definitely there, but what Guy says below could also be a strong possibility. Some type of lottery to be the weapon. Icheb's family lost and was compensated for losing in some way. Not necessarily the most useless...
That always bugged me, too.
It gives validation to something someone once said that the Borg allow a civilization to develop on its own, THEN come for them. It would definitely explain why there are pockets of non-Borgified planets in areas that seem to be overrun by Borg.
It would also explain why the Borg, after all the centuries of existence like mentioned in "DRAGON'S TEETH", still have not really gotten past the Delta Quadrant in terms of an assimilation takeover of the galaxy.
All that also helps cement my reasoning that the Borg are evil.
The Dragon's Teeth version is the short one. Guinan mentions in Q Who (the TNG ep where the Borg are introduced) " they're made up of organic and artificial life which has been developing for thousands of centuries".
There is that line. But I'm not sure I buy 'thousands of centuries'.
Maybe she was referring to the original species that was Borg, and through the entire evolution of said species.
Maybe she was referring to the original species that was Borg, and through the entire evolution of said species.
I remember reading an idea somewhere that "Borg" was more of a phenomenon that kind of ebbed and flowed and started anew many times throughout galactic history, rather than one singular "species" with an unbroken continuity. I'm not sure if that was from a book, or what.
Kor
Kor
Guinan's knowledge of the Borg was secondhand, though, and I doubt they sell history books about themselves. She may have been going from legend and hearsay.
The Destiny novel trilogy puts the Borg's origin around 4500 BCE. I tend to assume that at some point they were beaten back to near-total defeat, then recovered and expanded again around the time mentioned in "Dragon's Teeth."
The Borg have discerning taste.
They only take worlds and species that will add to their perfection.
Maybe Icheb's species is so awesome, that the Borg leave behind a breeding surplus, so that there is always more for later?
It's clear the line from "First Contact" was influenced by the original definition of the Prime Directive as stated in "Bread and Circuses."
SPOCK: Then the Prime Directive is in full force, Captain?
KIRK: No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development of said planet.
MCCOY: No references to space, or the fact that there are other worlds, or more advanced civilisations.
That's it. That's the only definition we had. Post-warp civilizations know about space, other worlds, etc... It would only be pre-warp civilizations that could be sheltered from the idea of spaceflight.
And another reason why discovery of warp actually makes sense in determining to make first contact or not is the fact that, as Christopher said, "interference is interference." Now, the Federation has no problem interfering in other cultures. Take the Klingon Civil War that Christopher cited. Starfleet interfered. There was a fleet of Starfleet ships patrolling the border between Klingon and Romulan space scanning for cloaked ships. That is explicitly interference in the internal affairs of the Klingons and Romulans.
See, when it comes to allies and adversaries, interference is unavoidable. Trade is interference. Cultural contamination (from a certain point of view). We all today eat a variety of foods that are grown in foreign countries. Our culture has been influenced by the foods and recipes from cultures not our own. The fact that some nations rally for freedoms or equal rights for all citizens is because they have been culturally influenced by their neighbors across the globe.
When two governments have contact, trade, and so forth, it is inevitable their culture will be influenced by the other. And that's OK. That is what makes life an interesting tapestry.
So the Federation or Starfleet determined there was a point where a culture should grow without influence. Once they reach a certain level, an arbitrary point, then contact can be made and cultural influence won't be damaging.
We don't even know if the Prime Directive is a Starfleet rule or a Federation law. That has never been established. All we know is that Starfleet is forbidden from roaming the galaxy imposing their will and culture on younger or weaker or less advanced civilizations that are not strong enough to either handle or resist that outside alien influence.
And no, there is nothing to prevent Klingons, Romulans, Ferengi, or anyone else from culturally contaminating, influencing, or manipulating pre-warp civilizations. That's one of the arguments used in pointing out the flaws of the Prime Directive.
Another argument is that the Prime Directive in the TNG era is not presented the same way the TOS era did. Kirk and the Enterprise could interfere and influence any culture they wanted as long as it looked natural or didn't have a negative impact (as judged by Kirk and the viewing audience). Kirk would have found a way to save Sarjenka and Drema IV without a thought and would never have been accused of breaking the Prime Directive. Same for the people on Boraal II. Technically stopping that asteroid from hitting Miramanee's Planet would have been considered a violation of the Prime Directive by TNG standards.
No, it isn't. In "The Empath," Kirk tells the Vians (who are clearly an advanced civilization) "Since you already know who we are, you must also know that we come in peace. Our Prime Directive specifically prohibits us from any interference." And in "The Magicks of Megas-tu," he tells the Megans: "Look, look at General Order number One. No starship may interfere with the normal development of any alien life or society." Any alien life or society.
Also, the later shows frequently referred to the Prime Directive applying to post-contact civilizations. In TNG, it was cited as why they had to play along with the Ligonians in "Code of Honor," why they couldn't take the colonists away in "Angel One," why Picard couldn't tell the Ornarans about how the Brekkians tricked them, why they couldn't save Timicin in "Half a Life," why they couldn't interfere with the J'naii's customs in "The Outcast." In DS9, Picard ordered Sisko to do "everything short of violating the Prime Directive" to prepare the Bajorans for Federation membership, and the PD tied Starfleet's hands in dealing with Tosk and the Hunters in "Captive Pursuit." In VGR, the PD was cited as why they couldn't save the Ocampa from the Kazon, why they couldn't help the androids reproduce in "Prototype," and other instances, while rescuing the telepaths from the Devore was cited as a violation of the PD.
There are so many explicit references to the PD applying to interference in post-contact, starflight-capable cultures that it's bizarre to me that anyone could believe it was meant to apply exclusively to pre-contact situations.
But we're not talking about "the idea of spaceflight." We're talking about non-interference. That's always been defined as the basis of the PD -- not interfering in other societies' natural development. Revealing aliens to pre-contact worlds is just one type of interference.
No. That's interaction, not interference. Interference means getting in someone's way, impeding their actions, preventing them from doing what they want or need. What's harmful in cultural interaction is not the mere fact of contact, but the effort to impose yourself on others, to make them do what you want instead of respecting their right to choose for themselves.
The whole idea of "cultural contamination" is one of the stupidest phrases ever spoken in Star Trek. The idea that cultures are supposed to be "pure" is the stuff of bigots and fanatics. History shows that there is nothing healthier for a culture than interaction with outside ideas. The communities that have the most interaction, the most intermingling of distinct cultures and value systems and ideas, are the ones that are the most innovative and dynamic. The only times that interaction becomes harmful are when the stronger partner in the exchange tries to force its values and beliefs on the other. As long as everyone's still free to make their own choices, there's no harm in the contact.
If the Klingon civil war had no interference by the Romulans, then it would have been a clearly internal Klingon matter. But Romulans backing the Duras side made it a different matter.
Picard didn't actually interfere in the war, he simply uncovered their backing of the Duras. Strictly speaking, the Starfleet fleet didn't attack the Romulans. Data basically unmasked their cloak, forcing the Romulans to withdraw. When that was finished, Picard brought the evidence to the legitimate ruler of the Klingon empire, which they were allies with.
The Federation simply gave the Klingons the tools they needed to help themselves. They were helping a friend out indirectly to help them solve their own problem their way.
The same with the Circle coup on Bajor. The evidence was gathered, but Sisko held things out on DS9 long enough for the right information to get to where it needed so the Bajorans can solve the issue on their own.
While the Prime Directive does have its flaws and loopholes, at the very least it is one of the cornerstones of STAR TREK that gives us all these great debates.
Picard didn't actually interfere in the war, he simply uncovered their backing of the Duras. Strictly speaking, the Starfleet fleet didn't attack the Romulans. Data basically unmasked their cloak, forcing the Romulans to withdraw. When that was finished, Picard brought the evidence to the legitimate ruler of the Klingon empire, which they were allies with.
The Federation simply gave the Klingons the tools they needed to help themselves. They were helping a friend out indirectly to help them solve their own problem their way.
The same with the Circle coup on Bajor. The evidence was gathered, but Sisko held things out on DS9 long enough for the right information to get to where it needed so the Bajorans can solve the issue on their own.
While the Prime Directive does have its flaws and loopholes, at the very least it is one of the cornerstones of STAR TREK that gives us all these great debates.
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