Was Q prepared to intervene at Wolf 359 / Earth?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by TheMadCloner, Nov 8, 2020.

  1. NigellaDeanna20

    NigellaDeanna20 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2015
    Location:
    Greystones, Ireland
    This is an extremely interesting question. I'd say that he probably would have known or guessed from his iinteractions with Picard and co. that humanity would find a way to succeed against the Borg.
     
    TheMadCloner likes this.
  2. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    astral plane
    Nope. Quinn said that the Q weren't omnipotent (all-powerful). Quinn implies that prior to his suicide, Q are omniscient (all-knowing) [http://www.chakoteya.net/Voyager/210.htm]:

    QUINN: Am I interrupting anything?
    TUVOK: I am curious. Have the Q always had an absence of manners, or is it the result of some natural evolutionary process that comes with omnipotence?
    QUINN: What? Oh, you mean, just popping in whenever we feel like it.
    TUVOK: That is one relevant example.
    QUINN: I apologise. At some point along the way, I guess we just stopped thinking about the little niceties.
    TUVOK: So it seems.
    QUINN: But you mustn't think of us as omnipotent, no matter what the Continuum would like you to believe. You and your ship seem incredibly powerful to lifeforms without your technical expertise. It's no different with us. We may appear omnipotent to you, but believe me, we're not.
    TUVOK: Intriguing. Just what vulnerabilities do the Q have?
    QUINN: Always looking for the tactical advantage, Mister Tuvok. Very good. As a matter of fact, that's why I've come to see you. In a way, our vulnerability is what this is all about. As the Q have evolved, we've sacrificed many things along the way. Not just manners, but mortality, and a sense of purpose, and a desire for change, and a capacity to grow. Every loss is a new vulnerability, wouldn't you say?

    [...]

    Q: Tell me, what would be the impact of a Q suicide?
    Q2: Oh, it would be an interruption to the Continuum. It would change the very nature of Q.
    JANEWAY: Can you be more specific?
    Q2: No, because we're not even sure what the end result would be. His suicide could have all sorts of unknown consequences to the Continuum.
    QUINN: Precisely! It would force the Q to deal with the unknown for the first time since the New Era began. They're afraid of me because they're afraid of the unknown.

    [...]

    JANEWAY: I can't say I entirely understand what I'm seeing here, but these people don't seem to be suffering.
    Q: Of course not. They're happy people. Happy people. What's there to feel sad about? Look at them.
    QUINN: They don't dare feel sad. If only they could, that would be progress.
    Q: Oh, the philosopher speaks.
    QUINN: When I was a respected philosopher, I celebrated the continuity, the undeviation of Q life. I argued that our civilisation had achieved a purity that no other culture had ever approached. And it was wonderful, for a while. At the beginning of the New Era, life as a Q was a continuous dialogue of discovery and issues and humour from all over the universe. But look at them now. Listen to their dialogue now.
    TUVOK: I'm afraid I cannot hear any.
    QUINN: Because it has all been said. Everyone has heard everything, seen everything. They haven't had to speak to each other in ten millennia. There's nothing left to say.
    Q: Well, I don't know about you, but I appreciate a little peace and quiet now and again.
    QUINN: It's ironic, isn't it, Q.​

    So, when the Battle of Wolf 359 takes place, according to VOY "Death Wish", the Q are omniscient.
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Quinn says that the Q aren't omnipotent - and that's BEFORE his suicide. So whatever effects that may have had, this isn't one of them.

    If Quinn says the Q aren't omnipotent, then we can take him at his word, that they never were.
     
  4. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    astral plane
    So, perhaps you are confused about the difference between omnipotence and omniscience? :shrug:
     
  5. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    I would have been impressed if Quinn had said it after his suicide... :p
     
  6. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Well, let's be objective. We know that we can't always trust Q to speak the truth, but we don't know that we can trust Quinn to have spoken the truth, either.

    I mean, the guy appears honest, but that doesn't say that much. For all we know, he and 'our' Q simply staged a play together to see how humanity (in which the Q continuum seems to be interested) would react, and he simply returned to the Continuum after his "death". So not even his statement that the Q aren't omnipotent, needs to be true.
     
    CorporalCaptain likes this.
  7. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Given the events of subsequent Q episodes (and the novels if you choose to follow them), I can't really buy into that interpretation of events.
     
    CorporalCaptain likes this.
  8. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    ^Well, I don't read the novels, and the consequences (such as the Q civil war, and Q getting a child) still could all be part of the 'play'. The crew have no way whatsoever to validate what they see in the "Q continuum civil war simulation" or what Q (and other Q's) tell them, is actually true (or an analogy of what is really happening).

    And of course I'm not saying this is true, or even particularly likely, but I don't think there's a way I can positively disprove it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
  9. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Yeah but if we were to declare everything the Q say and do to be untrue and/or part of "a play" then what would be the sense in either watching or discussing it?
     
    CorporalCaptain likes this.
  10. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    At that point we could start blaming the Q for episodes in which they have no apparent influence as well. Perhaps Q precipitated the events of "Cause and Effect", for instance. We have no way to disprove it.
     
    Orphalesion likes this.
  11. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Exactly, which eliminates any point from any discussion of anything, at that point we might as well go to that old cliche "what if it's all just somebody's dream"

    In my opinion the only reason to assume that Quinn lied or that the Q Civil War was merely a "play" was if there had been any indication to the audience to that effect and/or if those "untruths" and "plays" had led to any sort of point in a follow up episode.
    Since neither of those are true, I see no point in doubting either.
     
    DonIago and CorporalCaptain like this.
  12. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    astral plane
    Yes, absolutely. But I found the idea that the Q aren't truthful to be interesting, so that's why I liked that post (a "like" is not necessarily an endorsement or a declaration of agreement).
     
  13. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Perhaps you are all right, and it is too far fetched, with little indication it might be so.

    However, we do know that the Q we know best has a fondness for playing games, creating illusions for humans to 'run through', and not being straightforward with the truth. He may, or may not, be representative of the 'average' member of the Q continuum. The Guinan statement 'not all Q are alike, some are almost respectable' leaves a lot of wriggle room for how most Q are. Quinn might be one of those some 'almost respectable' Q's, or he might not.

    That is, of course, if Guinan is telling the truth :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
    CorporalCaptain likes this.
  14. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Oh I do think the Q episodes in Voyager being part of some sort of ruse/deception very well could have been an interesting storyline with potential if it had gone that way. Though I do think Quinn's story is only interesting if he was truthful.
    And as I said for me to entertain the possibility that it all was lies and pretend, there would have had to be some payoff to it and some hints to the audience. But neither is true, so I see it as pointless.
     
    CorporalCaptain likes this.
  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    astral plane
    I agree completely (and like :techman:).
     
    Orphalesion likes this.
  16. JesterFace

    JesterFace Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2014
    Location:
    Suomi Finland
    All this could mean that Q brought the Borg into the trial of humanity that Q was putting our crew through.

    Without the trial the Borg would not have been interested but after the events in 'Q Who' Q was able to see how humans would react to this kind of threat.
     
  17. K‘Mpec

    K‘Mpec Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2020
    Q is not bound to time. He caused the first encounter with the Borg. If this has anything to do with Q, he could have caused this first encounter in order to test federation, knowing that wolf 359 would happen.
    Q does not intervene. Q controls time and history itself. He decides that it happens or not.