Was Picard being forced to live out an entire lifetime...
- Thread starter The Rock
- Start date
Except for a couple of remarks he makes later, the flute is really the only reminder of that episode. We see it on several occasions later in the series.
He must like that flute. He got him with Nella Daren.http://www.ditl.org/personnel-page.php?PersonID=-689&ListID=Reviews#ref1
Well said as that in effect has been my major issue with the episode. I also find it hard to believe that:
1) The designers would have designed it to 'burn out' after one use. (Yes, maybe they didn't, but Riker's comments as he hands Picard the flute seem to suggest this - IE they're talking a BIG chance the one recipient will live long enough to 'teach others' as well as be WILLING to do so.)
2) That their probe's tech could penetrate energy shields of a race with superior tech - but yeah if we use logic/probability here we don't get the episode.
I also have never understood the popularity of this particular episode as IMO there's nothing inherently 'Star Trek' in it to me because as set up, it could have worked just as easily (and perhaps better) in a weekly anthology series like 'The Twilight Zone', or 'Outer Limits', et. al.
This episode was very "STAR TREK" in my view, although it is heavily flawed and not necessarily a personal favourite. It draws from STAR TREK lore such as from THE CAGE and CITY on the EDGE of FOREVER, as it explores living a life of illusion and how "real" that can seem, as well as the motivations for doing so - namely regret. Picard's readjustment to STARFLEET life after this episode does seem somewhat unlikely, but it's also a chance for Troi to show how good she is as a shrinker.
Also, it's part and parcel for STAR TREK to introduce something life changing to its crews - like Sybok's Pain-Taking & Soul Cleansing, in the TOS movies - and naturally, nobody acts any different than before, the next time we see them. This episode fits very well into the way STAR TREK works - or at least did, until that time - the only problem is that it doesn't make much more sense than the Nexus. There's this "it's all make-believe, folks" mentality to the writing that reveals how nobody crafting this story wanted to work harder than they had to - or as hard as they did have to, for that matter. One that works better with Christmas, or Halloween episodes, than what we have here ...
Also, it's part and parcel for STAR TREK to introduce something life changing to its crews - like Sybok's Pain-Taking & Soul Cleansing, in the TOS movies - and naturally, nobody acts any different than before, the next time we see them. This episode fits very well into the way STAR TREK works - or at least did, until that time - the only problem is that it doesn't make much more sense than the Nexus. There's this "it's all make-believe, folks" mentality to the writing that reveals how nobody crafting this story wanted to work harder than they had to - or as hard as they did have to, for that matter. One that works better with Christmas, or Halloween episodes, than what we have here ...
Well, you can poke holes like this in other "classic" Trek stories like City on the Edge of Forever.
I could never buy into that story because I just couldn't believe Kirk could fall so deeply for some woman he knew for...what, a week?...that he'd consider sacrificing history for her.
I think Picard getting back to his life so quick is perfectly understandable. It must be the probe's builders doing. They didn't want his real life to be disturbed, let alone destroyed, so they arranged for his real life memory to come fresh and clear to him after a short period of disorientation when he wakes up, just as when we wake up from a night sleep, we often remember the last thought we had before getting into bed.
I think Kirk's quick attachment to Edith works because the writing and acting both sell Edith as a really special person. She was beautiful, yes, but also charismatic, compassionate, a leader and visionary. A very easy woman to love. Kirk has a long history of quick attachments anyways, and this is arguably the best if not the only one that really worked.
I thought it very believable the first time I saw it. It is very well done. In fact when it was over, I thought to myself: "This must be one of the best TOS episodes, it's so much better than the other ones I saw."
Maybe I'm just too used to rushed romances. I just couldn't believe Kirk falling that hard that he'd endanger humanity.
Yes, I know it was longer to him but to the audience it was only 20 minutes or so. It doesn't make it any more real to US that the show says "Well, he knew her for weeks."
Yes, I know it was longer to him but to the audience it was only 20 minutes or so. It doesn't make it any more real to US that the show says "Well, he knew her for weeks."
"The heart wants what it wants"
Picard's a big boy. He's been through a lot worse than having to learn about and live within an extinct civilization in the space of 40 minutes.
He apparently appreciated the experience.
After all, that flute got him some trim.
He apparently appreciated the experience.
After all, that flute got him some trim.
Picard's a big boy. He's been through a lot worse than having to learn about and live within an extinct civilization in the space of 40 minutes.
He apparently appreciated the experience.
After all, that flute got him some trim.
His imaginary wife must have turn over in her grave...
On a serious note, it's disturbing to me how freely people here throw the "rape" word around.
My sister was raped when she was a teen and kept it to herself for decades. That's not the same as an imaginary telepathic thing on a tv show, no matter how you slice it. It really pisses me off that people try to make that the same as the real thing, in real life.
My sister was raped when she was a teen and kept it to herself for decades. That's not the same as an imaginary telepathic thing on a tv show, no matter how you slice it. It really pisses me off that people try to make that the same as the real thing, in real life.
I am uncertain as to why/how Picard was chosen as the one to receive the false memories. Was there any true interactiveness to the program, which helped tailor the experience for Picard personally. What if someone very nonhuman had encountered the probe? Would a Klingon or Ferengi have been forced into the same role?
What if a woman had encountered the probe? Would she have had the same false memories complete with a wife that bore her children? If the experience were truly immersive, and felt to Picard like he really lived every moment of that life, it would include him falling in love, having sex...having those memories implanted in your head against your will could be seen as a violation. Was it just a happy accident that the experience seemed to agree with Picard, that he felt genuine feelings for his wife and seems to have a relationship with her of his own free will. Was this really Picard's choice? Would anyone have the choice to follow a different path - I don't think so. If the subject chosen were committed to someone else, or gay, or a heterosexual woman, or for whatever reason just not attracted to the wife...then what?
I don't agree with throwing the word rape around lightly. The experience Picard had was a real emotional journey, and I think he saw it as a positive experience. I do wonder how real the experience was for him. We didn't see any lasting effects on the tv series, but that was the formula at the time. Does anyone know if any of the novels or short stories ever explored Picard's reaction. What I think of this would be shaped in part by knowledge the episode doesn't give us. If Picard had to grieve for his lost family and home it would be a horrible thing done to him. If after it was over the memories were more detached from his emotions like a dream, then it wouldn't be so bad.
I do like this episode. It is very moving and touching, but the mechanics of how it works, and how it could've worked with a different person does spark my curiosity and imagination.
What if a woman had encountered the probe? Would she have had the same false memories complete with a wife that bore her children? If the experience were truly immersive, and felt to Picard like he really lived every moment of that life, it would include him falling in love, having sex...having those memories implanted in your head against your will could be seen as a violation. Was it just a happy accident that the experience seemed to agree with Picard, that he felt genuine feelings for his wife and seems to have a relationship with her of his own free will. Was this really Picard's choice? Would anyone have the choice to follow a different path - I don't think so. If the subject chosen were committed to someone else, or gay, or a heterosexual woman, or for whatever reason just not attracted to the wife...then what?
I don't agree with throwing the word rape around lightly. The experience Picard had was a real emotional journey, and I think he saw it as a positive experience. I do wonder how real the experience was for him. We didn't see any lasting effects on the tv series, but that was the formula at the time. Does anyone know if any of the novels or short stories ever explored Picard's reaction. What I think of this would be shaped in part by knowledge the episode doesn't give us. If Picard had to grieve for his lost family and home it would be a horrible thing done to him. If after it was over the memories were more detached from his emotions like a dream, then it wouldn't be so bad.
I do like this episode. It is very moving and touching, but the mechanics of how it works, and how it could've worked with a different person does spark my curiosity and imagination.
The probe goes for the nearest bald male I like to think it would have been different for everybody.
I don't agree that Picard may have experienced only the highlights of this life. I think he experienced every minute of it. Otherwise it's not really as dramatic. I also think he would have died if they cut off the beam.
I like to think it would have been different for everybody.I don't agree that Picard may have experienced only the highlights of this life. I think he experienced every minute of it. Otherwise it's not really as dramatic. I also think he would have died if they cut off the beam.
I'm truly sorry for your sister to have suffered something of that magnitude.
But we're discussing a TV show and within the context of the TV show, mind rape is exactly what happened. Should we exclude our opinions on everything on the basis that they may have happened to someone somewhere in the real world? Should we never mention assault, murder or abuse either?
Did the probe pick Picard because he seemed to be the most receptive psychologically, he seemed to be the most receptive biologically, or because he was the Captain and his subordinates wouldn't have the stones to dissect him?
First, it's obvious that the program was at least partially interactive since Picard talks about his starship in it. Second I believe that his family was tailor made for him. If it were a woman or a gay person then the parameters would have changed accordingly. I don't think that they would have given him a wife that wasn't compatible with his personality and indeed they seem to be getting along very well in the parts that were on camera. It's also very likely that his best friend in the program that he named his son after was also tailor made for his personality. The goal was to make him experience their culture in a setting that was comfortable for him. So it couldn't possibly have been bad. It was as if he had met his wife through a very sophisticated and efficient match making service.
Out of a thousand plus people, the probe chose him. I don't think it was a coincidence. A captain was more likely to elicit compassion and consideration than any other member of the crew. Remember how picard yanked the phaser out of that poor guy's frozen hand? what if the hand had been destroyed as a result? Picard acted like a real inconsiderate boor that time.
Similar threads
