The base concept is the same. Forcing people to remember long gone civilizations. "Memorial" handles the concept better and is actually interesting to boot.
Was Picard being forced to live out an entire lifetime...
- Thread starter The Rock
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The base concept is the same. Forcing people to remember long gone civilizations. "Memorial" handles the concept better and is actually interesting to boot.
Well, not really, for one thing the old man has nothing to do with her abduction, also he's real, and he suffered a great loss from the dictator in place, that he's gonna stab in the end. Plus many other differences that I'll let you discover by yourself.
The base concept is the same. Forcing people to remember long gone civilizations. "Memorial" handles the concept better and is actually interesting to boot.
We're getting a little off base here. Why don't you start a "Memorial" debate thread in the Voyager section? I'll be happy to participate. This is about Picard.
The base concept is the same. Forcing people to remember long gone civilizations. "Memorial" handles the concept better and is actually interesting to boot.
We're getting a little off base here. Why don't you start a "Memorial" debate thread in the Voyager section? I'll be happy to participate. This is about Picard.
Like every other thread, this is about Star Trek. You'll find that when things are similar to what is being discussed, they will be brought up.
The base concept is the same. Forcing people to remember long gone civilizations. "Memorial" handles the concept better and is actually interesting to boot.
We're getting a little off base here. Why don't you start a "Memorial" debate thread in the Voyager section? I'll be happy to participate. This is about Picard.
Like every other thread, this is about Star Trek. You'll find that when things are similar to what is being discussed, they will be brought up.
Yes but we're getting in highly debatable territory here. You seem to think that "Memorial" is the best thing since sliced bread and I for one think that it's a below average overacted piece of forgettable junk, if you compare it to the "Inner Light" that is. As a Voyager episode, well, it's not that bad.
"Best thing since sliced bread"? Not even close. "Memorial" isn't even close to being the best episode of Star Trek. But it is better than "The Inner Light".
"Best thing since sliced bread"? Not even close. "Memorial" isn't even close to being the best episode of Star Trek. But it is better than "The Inner Light".
My most vivid memory of "Memorial" is my ear ringing from Tom's incessant yelling... in a way the episode itself gave me some attenuated form of PTSD, which is ironic... sort of.
Agreed & excellent pointBillJ said:
Stockholm Syndrome isn't ultimately about bonding with captors, though. It's about dispelling with the animosity that would normally & rightfully be associated with being a captive, in lieu of more positive attitudes of empathy, cooperativeness, & forgiveness, as an emotional defense mechanism. It's emotional adaptation, as a result of being naturally opposed to living your life angry, & full of contempt.
I think what I have a hard time with is not so much that Picard becomes ok with it. It's that someone else might not have. I can foresee instances where other types of individuals enduring this act could react in a way that wouldn't be all that dissimilar to what happened to O'Brien in Hard Times. A mind F##K is a mind f##k is a mind f##k. This program from a less advanced culture could not possibly account for the myriad of emotional & intelligent reactions that varied individuals might have
At the very least, some other individual could've ended up in a mental asylum because they never stopped insisting that they'd been displaced from their reality, or told that woman to go F##k herself & wandered the planet the rest of their days, looking for a way off
The one thing I have a hard time accepting is that a computer program could effectively predict & manage sentient behavior. There is bound to be cracks, which we never see in the episode, & if there's some sci-fi fantasy write-around, we should have be told it, imho
I do enjoy the drama of the episode though, & acting
The common cold is much closer to a near death experience ( and it sometimes even feels that way too) than Picard's acceptance of his situation to anything like Stockholm Syndrome, besides I have a feeling that if Picard was really hostile and opposed to everything presented, the program would have simply ended and let him go as it would have judged the exercise totally pointless.
You know, that's why they call it Sci. Fi. and in Star trek, most of the time, the Sci. is diluted in the Fi. in homeopathic proportions...
Admittedly, we're all playing amateur psychologists here.
I had contact to "professional" ones. They use much more technical terms, but in the end its "hit and miss" also, and every one follows his own philosphy in the end. The difference is much more the "professional appearance", not so much the professional competence.
But the thread title also mention "... being force to live out ..., so episodes like Memorial and Hard Time would both be meaningful parts of the discussion. Being forced to experience a implanted program/memory without your consent.
But the thread title also mention "... being force to live out ..., so episodes like Memorial and Hard Time would both be meaningful parts of the discussion. Being forced to experience a implanted program/memory without your consent.
It's like putting in the same category "being forced to undergo a physical and being forced to take a beating."
There are degrees and nuances in everything, and you can't say anything meaningful or of interest if you deny that they exist.
No, it like being force to experience something without consent, verses being force to experience something without consent.
It's people making decision for you without your input, without caring in the least how it effects you.
Remember, when Picard's friends attempt to thwart the alien plan for Picard, the mechanism they sent interfered with Picard heart in order to stop them. What the aliens intended to happen was more important that Picard's life.
One of the first things Picard did inside the program was express a desire to leave, why didn't the program immediately release him? It's because he had no control, he wasn't being given any.
It's people making decision for you without your input, without caring in the least how it effects you.
Remember, when Picard's friends attempt to thwart the alien plan for Picard, the mechanism they sent interfered with Picard heart in order to stop them. What the aliens intended to happen was more important that Picard's life.
One of the first things Picard did inside the program was express a desire to leave, why didn't the program immediately release him? It's because he had no control, he wasn't being given any.
This episode has always made me think and re-think what we take for granted as our lives in the here and now.
Just to be clear here: These people had been dead a thousand years!!!No, it like being force to experience something without consent, verses being force to experience something without consent.
It's people making decision for you without your input, without caring in the least how it effects you.
Remember, when Picard's friends attempt to thwart the alien plan for Picard, the mechanism they sent interfered with Picard heart in order to stop them. What the aliens intended to happen was more important that Picard's life.
One of the first things Picard did inside the program was express a desire to leave, why didn't the program immediately release him? It's because he had no control, he wasn't being given any.
Just to be clear here, "these people" set up the probe the way they did, and they wrote the program.
Selfish bastards.
A planetary civilization can hardly be called selfish especially since they were all going to die with no hope of having any legacy whatsoever. What they did may have been bizarre and impractical but it was in no way, selfish.
Just to be clear here, "these people" set up the probe the way they did, and they wrote the program.
Selfish bastards.
A planetary civilization can hardly be called selfish especially since they were all going to die with no hope of having any legacy whatsoever. What they did may have been bizarre and impractical but it was in no way, selfish.
But it was designed to be a violation of a sentient being. There's no other way to interpret their actions. They could've sent books or could've allowed people to make the decision as to whether or not they want to live the life of a Kataan.
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