Was original broadcast as dark as TOS-R?

[plynch]

So lately I've been too lazy to stand up and put one of my beloved clamshell dvds into the player. I've been watching the TOS-R on Netflix on both my LCD TV and iPad. Enough people have mentioned elsewhere that they are darker that I know it isn't my players. Sometimes I have trouble seeing some things because of the darkness. (I don't see so well anyway.) They're not worse to me, mind you, and maybe a little moodier. Does it make them more colorful if they're mastered darker? I know color was a big thing for NBC and RCA.

My apologies if this has been asked and answered ad nauseam, but is it believed the new mastering is similar in appearance to the darkness and contrast that went out over the NBC network a half-century ago?

Someone in a different thread said Paramount upped the brightness when issuing tapes or dvds. How would we know how the original film was engineered for broadcast? Or is it common knowledge the prints were brightened over time? Thanks in advance.

 

[Melakon]

I have only had old style tube televisions, and don't notice any appreciable difference in brightness since the 60s. It might look different on current flat screen tv's, but I've never seen a set in operation except in a store.

 

[Ssosmcin]

The VHS/Laserdisc copies I have from the mid-late 80's are much brighter than the Blu-Ray prints. However, the early 80's "two episode per tape" volumes that came out are darker. The DVDs are darker than the late 80's prints but not as much as the Blu-Rays.

If this is any help at all...

 

[ZapBrannigan]

How about the fact that TOS-R is adjusted to bring out the green in Command tunics?

 

[Green Shirt]

How about the fact that TOS-R is adjusted to bring out the green in Command tunics?

They should have tried harder.

 

[Metryq]

Computers have a different gamut (color space), latitude and gamma than CRTs. If 8-bit per channel computer video runs from 0 to 255, digitized NTSC would run from about 16 to 216, if I'm remembering the numbers correctly. In short, computer video "goes to 11."

TOS-R on DVD should still comply with NTSC (or PAL, SECAM) specs and have a pedestal (black level) of about 7.5 IRE. If it was processed for computer screens, it would darken the image.

In the early days Macs used a gamma of 1.8, while Windows used 2.2, similar to that of television. Since I did a lot of video work, I always set my Mac to 2.2. I don't know if a gamma of 1.8 is still the norm on Macs, nor do I have any idea what the setting is for iOS devices. I'd guess that all the newer devices spread out into the wider space provided by digital devices and screens.

I recall some of the TREK VHS tapes (pre-TOS-R) looking dark. "The Ultimate Computer" is one example. The people who telecined the episode might have "crushed the blacks" to make it look "cleaner." Those automatic "optimizer" plugins for image editors stretch the histogram of an image to absolute black and white, not always a good thing. Try that with a smoky scene, like the tavern in Nepal in RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, and you'll end up jacking the contrast through the roof and making the scene unwatchable.

 

[plynch]

I'm pretty sure from different threads the "darker TOS-R" is commonly experienced by people using different playbacks .

But somewhere I read this was to get back to the original Finnerman ethos/look? Anybody know? Or is it just trends? We like darker looks now?

 

[KeepOnTrekking]

I've see TOS and TOS-R on both a flat screen and an old tube tv. TOS-R comes across darker but crisper whereas TOS is brighter and blurrier. It's not just the command uniforms changing from yellow to green, but I've noticed other color changes. For example where they first meet the Romulan Commander in her quarters in "The Enterprise Incident," the room's lighting was originally a reddish-orange but with TOS-R it is now a purplish-pink.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

It's not just the command uniforms changing from yellow to green, but I've noticed other color changes. For example where they first meet the Romulan Commander in her quarters in "The Enterprise Incident," the room's lighting was originally a reddish-orange but with TOS-R it is now a purplish-pink.

Trekcore screencaps:

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x02/The_Enterprise_Incident_075.JPG

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x02hd/theenterpriseincidenthd0340.jpg

There's no denying they changed the colors; even I can see it.

 

[Ithekro]

I seem to recall that people use to keep their brightness setting up higher several decades ago.

Also a bit of playing with the red-green balance.

 

[MANT!]

My dad always maxed the brightness on his color sets..but to get an Idea of the original broadcast viewing see the following..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JM1sHCMr5rY

please remember, often one brand of TV showed a slightly different picture than the other brand..and each owner would adjust the set differently..

Solid state color tuning was a few more years away and corrected digital TV was decades away..

There was no true color standard over broadcast TV when Star Trek was first shown, It took me years to determine the Enterprise was medium grey, in all my viewings prior to home media, the ship was white on our set..

Sit back and enjoy the fact that home entertainment tech has progressed enough so we can have discussions about the "proper brightness" of the show, when it was impossible to determine it back in the 60s /early 70s.

 

[Metryq]

Never The Same Color

 

[plynch]

It's not just the command uniforms changing from yellow to green, but I've noticed other color changes. For example where they first meet the Romulan Commander in her quarters in "The Enterprise Incident," the room's lighting was originally a reddish-orange but with TOS-R it is now a purplish-pink.

Trekcore screencaps:

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x02/The_Enterprise_Incident_075.JPG

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x02hd/theenterpriseincidenthd0340.jpg
There's no denying they changed the colors; even I can see it.

The pink and avocado does look pretty late sixties judging by a few books/greeting cards I have form my childhood and color palettes I've seen. And I did see a S3 tunic under what appeared to be white light at Detroit Science Center on tour. Definitely more greenish than it appears on the DVDs or VCR tapes.

What got me started on this was someone's comment about being truer to Finnerman, in another thread.

Anyone else think the darker and colors are closer to original look or intended look?

 

[Dude111]

The VHS/Laserdisc copies I have from the mid-late 80's are much brighter than the Blu-Ray prints.

Yes as the VHS copies are analogue,I am glad to have them

I love Purity.....

 

[RandyS]

I've noticed this too, and not just with TOS, I've seen it on other remastered shows. I just assumed that something in the computer program was doing it.

It's also one of the reasons I prefer TOS in it's original version. It's ALOT brighter and therefore, easier to see. I have nothing against the remastered version, but the darker image makes the show harder to follow, particularly with my eyesight.

 

[Ssosmcin]

That's the whole question though; is the brighter picture how it was originally seen? Or was it actually darker before the home video releases? Are we just "used to" seeing it a certain way for years?

 

[Indysolo]

It was common for transfers in the early years of home video to be brighter. But as Star Trek was not transferred to a video format in the 60s, but was instead broadcast from film, the chances of the new HD remasters being more accurate increase.

Neil

 

[johnnybear]

I used to have a lot of trouble with my old eighties tv in the nineties! It used to be bright when you switched it on and then change later on but I tried to change the settings on it and made it worse! Dig out a copy of The Omega Glory and set it to that and it was beautiful! Right colours, right brightness, not too bright and enough to eliminate any brightness in the space scenes and you're there!
JB