Voyager aired before Ezri was on DS9
Was Kes a Good Character?
- Thread starter hux
- Start date
Well, they should have thought on that before starting dabbling with the cast. In fact, the original cast was good as it was.
Not to mention having Vorik, Samantha, Naomi and Icheb showing up in episode after episode after episode. Those guys didn't work for free, I suppose.
since they were billed as guest stars their pay scale was different.
what is "good" is a matter of opinion. Yes it was good as it was, but in my opinion it got better with Kes leaving and Seven joining.
She was indeed!
I don't think it got better because of Seven joining. I think they were willing to explore some different plot lines with Seven that could have worked with Kes. Though, I think that Jeri Ryan added a different chemistry with the cast that may have made a difference.
Kes did the pixie look first, but Ezri got it right.
Wigs look shit.
I forget that Joleen is classically beautiful most of the time.
I'm afraid I don't agree with this. First off, Voyager is high quality for me from CARETAKER to ENDGAME with the odd mediocre story and one awful episode (FURY).
And more importantly, if you think that the show got better, this must have had something to do with Seven joining them. I don't think it had anything to do with Kes leaving. Once Seven joined them, those stories revolving around her would have been interesting anyway, no matter if Kes was still on the ship or not. Seven's presence changed the tone of the show, not Kes's absence.
Also, if she had stayed, perhaps we would have got some good stories with her. To me, YEAR OF HELL doesn't make much sense without Kes after the events in BEFORE AND AFTER, and I wouldn't have minded a good Kes story instead of some of the pretty mediocre Seven-centered stories like RETROSPECT. Or instead of some other mediocre stories like THE DISEASE and most importantly, THE HAUNTING OF DECK TWELVE.
I guess that the daily cost they had for all four of them together were considerable higher than what was written on Lien's paycheck.
And no, Voyager didn't get better when Kes was dumped. It became a series centered on a "sexy" superwoman who could fix everything and her two assistants while the other characters were shoved in the background.
The baddie had been altering the landscape a few times a month for two hundred years. By the start of Year of Hell, Annorax had fired his gun 1/4 of a million times since Kes from Before and After had her day in the sun.
My God ... I don't understand a word of it but rest assured I believe everything you say. As for me, I'll take Janeway's advice re temporal paradoxes and won't even try ...
However, this was not what I meant. What makes no sense to me is that in BEFORE AND AFTER you set up a storyline, make it crystal clear to the viewer who the protagonist of that storyline would be and once you make her vanish in thin air, you don't as much as indicate with a throwaway remark from one of the other characters that the events taking place right now are the ones that one of their former crew had already given a detailed account of.
That scene in the Jefferey's (sp.?) tube with Seven made it even worse for me.
But like I said I'm sure that from a time travel point of view it makes sense. I really am like Janeway, such things only give me headaches and since I'm prone to them anyway, I shy away from artificially provoking them with time travel theories and stuff like that ...
My God ... I don't understand a word of it but rest assured I believe everything you say. As for me, I'll take Janeway's advice re temporal paradoxes and won't even try ...
However, this was not what I meant. What makes no sense to me is that in BEFORE AND AFTER you set up a storyline, make it crystal clear to the viewer who the protagonist of that storyline would be and once you make her vanish in thin air, you don't as much as indicate with a throwaway remark from one of the other characters that the events taking place right now are the ones that one of their former crew had already given a detailed account of.
That scene in the Jefferey's (sp.?) tube with Seven made it even worse for me.
But like I said I'm sure that from a time travel point of view it makes sense. I really am like Janeway, such things only give me headaches and since I'm prone to them anyway, I shy away from artificially provoking them with time travel theories and stuff like that ...
The writers of Voyager must be the laziest of the whole franchise. Most of their stories make very little sense, even the simple ones. As for the more complex ones, they are a total mess.
I don't feel this is the case to the extent that most fans do but YoH is one such example for me.
Don't worry. They don't understand it any more than you do (given that there is nothing to understand) but they'll pretend that they do, because that's how they are.
My God ... I don't understand a word of it but rest assured I believe everything you say. As for me, I'll take Janeway's advice re temporal paradoxes and won't even try ...
Crack 4 or five eggs into a bowl and beat them with a fork. A whisk is for assholes. Don't bother. Too hard to clean.
(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)
Stir in half a cup of sugar.
(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)
Add a cup of flour. Mix it in with a wooden spoon, or still the same fork from before.
(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)
Add a half a cup of milk. Seriously you can use the same fork still. Mix the bugger up.
(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)
Pour the finished batter onto a hot oiled/buttered skillet.
(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)
When bubbles start to pop on the top of the batter, take a spatula if you are a loser, or just flip your half done pancakes with that fork. Metal on metal is not the best, and some people might insist on on you using rubber tools with their expensive skillets.... Be a man, use the same fork!
(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)
Wait for the other side to brown and then remove finished pancake from skillet, put on serving dish, and repeat these steps until you have enough food to get fat.
(Now take the eggs out, and put the eggs back in their shells.)
Did that explain Annorax's weapon?
Extracting your eggs out of your semi/fully cooked pancakes and putting them back into their cracked shells, and obviously repairing the cracks until it seems like the eggs have never been cracked = The end of the episode Before and After where Tuvok says that he is going to debrief Kes about the Krenim (and Janeway's death).
After the temporal weapon had been fired hundreds of times, and then thousands of times, there came a point where Janeway did not any longer know that the Krenim killed her in the future because Before and After either didn't happen as we saw it, or didn't happen at all, so Kathy became portentless.
In every version of Time where she knows she's supposed to get murdered by the Krenim, SHE GOES AROUND KRENIM SPACE ...Just like she did at the end of the two parter, because going around Krenim space is not that big of a deal.
Actually, it seems that between "Before and After" and the "Year of Hell", the Krenim empire has been displaced ten thousand lights years ahead of Voyager. It's funny that very few people seem to notice this enormous discrepancy.
I admit there is a bit of me that wonders one thing about Kes and The Year of Hell. If she stayed with the show would she have pulled B'Elanna and Janeway away from that exploding console?
I accept that there are many alternative timelines in Trek and the one that Kes saw was just one 'possible' future. The Year of Hell that we saw in Season 4 was just another one of those 'possible futures'. Seven instead of Kes, Chakotay and Paris being abducted instead of their 'counterparts' being killed etc.
I do remember watching this when it aired. It had been so long since Before and After (it have been over a year. Long time in those days. I didn't have any way to record it to watch it over and over and I had a life) so I didn't remember all that much about it except the name of the event, The Year of Hell.
What little bits I did remember about Kes was that the earlier episode was just one possible future and obviously what we were going to see wasn't the future Kes experienced. We had seen this happen earlier in the TNG episode Parallels. It was something perfectly normal for Trek.
I accept that there are many alternative timelines in Trek and the one that Kes saw was just one 'possible' future. The Year of Hell that we saw in Season 4 was just another one of those 'possible futures'. Seven instead of Kes, Chakotay and Paris being abducted instead of their 'counterparts' being killed etc.
I do remember watching this when it aired. It had been so long since Before and After (it have been over a year. Long time in those days. I didn't have any way to record it to watch it over and over and I had a life) so I didn't remember all that much about it except the name of the event, The Year of Hell.
What little bits I did remember about Kes was that the earlier episode was just one possible future and obviously what we were going to see wasn't the future Kes experienced. We had seen this happen earlier in the TNG episode Parallels. It was something perfectly normal for Trek.
What I am wondering about is what event happened in the final time line and didn't in "Before And After" that caused Kes to turn into a ball of light?
Her telepathic experience with Species 8472. It somehow enhanced her already powerful telekinetic and psychic abilities.
But given that borg space was impossible to avoid, wouldn't she have met 8472 in both cases?
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