Was Kahless meant to be an allegory for Jesus?
- Thread starter indolover
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This.
Plus, remember that according to Klingon legend, the Klingons killed their gods. I'd say Kahless therefore is much closer to Nietzsche's idea of the uebermensch, than anything.
Sure, why not.
Everything's Jesus these days after all.
Everything's Jesus these days after all.
British, there was no England then.
From where are you people getting Arthur? It's obviously a Jesus metaphor. Unless Arthur has a clergy and holy book of teachings based on him; teachings that were said to be more important than the man.
Kahless was condemned to die by a tyrant Molor, who was angered that Kahless had incited the people against him. Khlaess was put to death and gave his word to his followers that he would someday return from Sto-Vo-Kor/Heaven.
"Open your heart to Kahless, ask him your questions, let him speak to you with your mind unclouded by doubt or hesitation. Only then can you find what you are looking for."
Obviously a Jesus allegory- even a blatantly heavy-handed one.
Kahless was condemned to die by a tyrant Molor, who was angered that Kahless had incited the people against him. Khlaess was put to death and gave his word to his followers that he would someday return from Sto-Vo-Kor/Heaven.
"Open your heart to Kahless, ask him your questions, let him speak to you with your mind unclouded by doubt or hesitation. Only then can you find what you are looking for."
Obviously a Jesus allegory- even a blatantly heavy-handed one.
Wasn't a big part of Kahless's claim to fame the fact that he was a kickass warrior, though? Jesus, on the other hand, was a peaceful man (from what I've heard). I'd think that's a big enough difference to qualify Kahless as not quite a Jesus figure.
Yeah and Jesus wasn't a Klingon, either. This is why we call it "allegory". Sure, let's forget about the fact that we're presented a messianic figure who brings teachings concerning the law to his people; gets put to death by a tyrant; promises to one day return from heaven; has a dominant clergy looking for his return; a holy book of teachings central to a civilization's formation; a figure who people are told to open their hearts to, and seek answers from- let's put all that aside an talk about how Jesus didn't actually have forehead ridges. There's absolutely nothing incredulous about that.
That wasn't my point, though. I didn't say he had to be a klingon for a connection between them to make sense. I just meant I thought Jesus isn't the most accurate allegory for Kahless because a lot of Kahless's legend was built on physical prowess and standing up to others by actually fighting physically.
Jesus, on the other hand, was all about ideas over violence and actually resisted the oppression of others by taking their abuse and dying a martyr rather than actually fighting with fists.
To be honest, I don't remember much about the Kahless legend, so you probably have a stronger argument than I. Still, as I think of the klingons as a people who celebrate physical rebellion as much as standing up for one's ideals, I tend to find the King Arthur comparison more apt.
If anyone is seeing it through a "Christian lens" then it's the fault of the writers for writing it that way. None of those figures you mention was put to death by a tyrant, and promised to one day return from heaven to his followers. No one says of Moses, "Open your heart to Moses- seek him without doubt and he will give you answers" this stuff is so blatantly Christian in symbolism and imagery that the sheer obtusity being demonstrated in this thread can only be on purpose.
Klingons pray to Kahless- no one prays to Moses or David or Mohammed or Buddha or Arthur and, oh yes, I am entirely sure that the writers of Star Trek meant for Kahless to be an Ashoka allegory: like anyone even knows who the hell that is. "Maybe Kahless isn't coming back." "Kahless left us, all of us, a powerful legacy. A way of thinking and acting that makes us Klingon. If his words hold wisdom and his philosophy is honorable, what does it matter if he returns? What is important is that we follow his teachings. Perhaps the words are more important than the man." The only name you can insert there in place of Kahless that makes perfect sense is "Jesus" in fact that whole return of Kahless episode on ST:TNG was so heavy-handed in its Christian analogy I ended up with a sprained neck. How long has Kahless been gone into heaven anyway? a couple thousand years maybe? Kahless even has his own shroud of Turin for his sword!
The other holy figures you mention there have nothing substantially in common ; and only the barest of superficialities. You might as well argue that Abraham Lincoln was the inspiration for Kahless since both had something to do with law.
That's because he's Jesus the Klingon. Of course he's got the superficialities of a Klingon warrior. It's the specifics that are illustrate the analogy; an analogy that is completely obvious.
Not just that but Kahless essentially founded Klingon culture as seen in the episodes.
He founded the warrior culture, produced basic Klingon philosophy/way of life, is the central figure in their religious beliefs, and in some sense is seen as a God. Martok once said that Kahless was divine, and plenty of Klingons on screen have quoted Kahless' words as being sacred.
The comparison with Jesus is not exact, but it is accurate to some degree. The key point is that Jesus founded Christianity, and thus has influenced the society and moral values of many Christian countries. Kahless founded Klingon religious beliefs and their warrior code, and is a kind of Messiah to Klingons.
Yeah, and King Arthur is sleeping on the Isle of Avalon, to return one day in Britain's greatest hour of need. That doesn't means that the legend of King Arthur is primarily inspired by the Christ story.
Well, gosh, I'm completely convinced by you after insulting me and everyone else over differing interpretations of the literary origins of a minor character from a TV show.
Billions of people know who Ashoka is. Learn a bit of history without a Eurocentric bias.
^ Well, to be fair to THE_FETT, all of the writers and producers were, I believe, either of American or European origins. And the show was produced first and foremost for that audience. So I think it's fair to assume that it was written with a Eurocentric bias and that figures who would be not commonly known to that part of the world are likely not who the writers had in mind.
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