Was it just me? (Generations)

[Dukhat]

Duh! Why the hell didn't he go back, say, two weeks before and warn his brother about what will happen? (Shitty script-writing, that's why.)

Or excellent script writing, true to character. Picard knows about meddling with time travel, he's not a god, he can't go around fixing every problem he's ever encountered. Going back to the moment that caused all of this changed nothing, no damage was done, that's the most logical thing to do. Very in character with Picard.

(Also, hindsight being what it is, we've had how many years to think this over, where Picard was in a cloudy Nexus and had only remembered what the mission was)

Sorry, I don't buy that for a second. First of all, if you want to talk about Picard's character, I think almost every TNG fan out there would agree that Picard of the movies isn't the same guy as Picard from the TV show. But I'm not even going to go there.

Not only did Picard lose 2/3 of the remaining Picards in existence, not only did they die in the most horrible way imaginable for someone to die...but a Nexus-induced fantasy of Rene and what could have been a new entire line of Picard kiddies is thrust in his face, right before he finds out that he can go anywhere at any time (and without the benefit of being a god, to boot). So, uh, wouldn't he want to go back to where he "really" could make a difference, for everyone? Like, say, saving his brother and nephew from a completely meaningless death, stopping Soran before he ever even started causing stars to be destroyed, saving his ship from meaningless destruction, or, heaven forbid, going back even farther and having that family that the Nexus showed him?

This has nothing to do with Picard's character. This has to do with being human and making the most logical decision when one is given the opportunity (in the face of ongoing danger) to change history for the better.

And it is sloppy writing, without a doubt.

 

[Aragorn]

What I don't understand is why Picard thought their deaths were the end of the family line. Seeing as how guys 30 years older than him are fathering kids in the 21st century, he's still got plenty of time in the 24th century, especially since Picard isn't going to die of old age in the captain's chair. Hell, when Troi was consoling Picard, he could've jumped her right there!

 

[SeerSGB]

Another things that bugs me about the killing off the Picard family: By the end of the movie, fuck 'em. Picard doesn't seem to give a shit. Then again he doesn't seem to care that his ship is laying in pieces either so maybe Picard's a dick like that.

 

[Jeyl]

Or excellent script writing, true to character.

/spittake Pspspspsp!

Picard knows about meddling with time travel, he's not a god, he can't go around fixing every problem he's ever encountered. Going back to the moment that caused all of this changed nothing

First off, When and where in the film did it establish Picard as a "careful with time travel" kind of a guy? He had no qualms with bringing Kirk, a person who would be so out of time back with him. I seriously doubt he planned for Kirk to die.

Second, going back in time via the Nexus would have been a one time deal since the circumstances of getting into back to the the Nexus (thanks to the writers excellent script writing) were not possible.

Third, going back in time DID change something. It prevented the sun from exploding and saving the entire Enterprise crew and the inhabitants of Veridian 4.

 

[BolianAuthor]

It was important because it made Picard realize that when the chips are down, the family photo album is more important than an artifact from a long-dead alien civilization, of which there may be only one copy known to exist in the universe.

 

[The_Baroness]

I always wondered why 24th century firefighting can't save a handful of people from a small, burning farmhouse.

I mean...surely they could have beamed them out or something?

 

[DonIago]

IIRC, all that's established is that they burned to death in "a fire". That could mean a number of different things. Perhaps the fire was in an office building where thousands of people were in jeopardy and Rene and Robert died from smoke inhalation before they could be beamed out.

In any event, their home appeared to be in an area where transporter activity was restricted/non-existent, as Picard has to walk to the home in "Family"...hard to say whether that might impact emergencies, but there's all kinds of reasons why transporters may be non-functional at a crucial interval.

 

[I am not Spock]

Generations is full of plotholes. Why not use the Nexus to go back several days, and save Robert and Rene? Why not go back and arrest Soran in Ten Forward?

 

[DWF]

Generations is full of plotholes. Why not use the Nexus to go back several days, and save Robert and Rene? Why not go back and arrest Soran in Ten Forward?

Why arrest Soren in Ten Forward? He didn't do anything at that point.

 

[Admiral_Young]

@Aragorn...Picard thought their deaths meant the end of his family line because at the time he believed that because he was so dedicated to his career he had put having a family aside and never even considered it a possibility. This was another theme caused by their deaths that was touched on by the Nexus scene. The deaths of his brother and Rene shocked him to look at things he'd never really thought of before. Someone mentioned the scene in the observation lounge with Troi and I agree that was a poignant scene between the two of them. It's also a scene where we get to see what his family really meant to him. Another theme it played on is the old cliche of you never really appreciate things or people until they're gone and this was reflected in Picard's character arc. Granted it created some flaws as has been pointed out already but it wasn't totally abandoned.

I do tend to agree that either Robert or Rene should have died, not both, and not Maire as well? That's a little convenient. They needed someone to maintain the winery because they probably knew that Picard's sense of duty and morals would have made him have a critical decision to make at the end of the film. Does he leave Starfleet to go tend the farm and continue his family's legacy? Or let an outsder take it over? Robert probably would have never forgiven him for that. I just found it strange that Maire survived.

 

[Dukhat]

Generations is full of plotholes. Why not use the Nexus to go back several days, and save Robert and Rene? Why not go back and arrest Soran in Ten Forward?

Why arrest Soren in Ten Forward? He didn't do anything at that point.

With what Picard knows of what Soran's going to do, it doesn't really matter; I'd think that would be reason enough.

 

[SeerSGB]

Generations is full of plotholes. Why not use the Nexus to go back several days, and save Robert and Rene? Why not go back and arrest Soran in Ten Forward?

Why arrest Soren in Ten Forward? He didn't do anything at that point.

He was already working with the Klingons at that point and already built the trilithuim WMD. There was already plenty to detain him on, had the known it.

 

[DonIago]

Theoretically Picard could have held Soran for questioning until his moment of opportunity to blow up the Amargosa star had passed, meanwhile investigating Soran's background to find evidence of illegal activity...actually, the data card Soran was carrying for the Klingons or the set-up he already had at Veridian might have qualified as incriminating evidence.

 

[EyalM]

Picard should have gone even further back then 10-forward. Don't those people on the observatory deserve to be rescued as well?

 

[faino]

I kind of think it's a very necessary and essential part of the storyline. Plus, the title of the movie is "Generations"...not simply referring to the show TNG or Kirk's appearance, but a reference to Picard's ancestry.

 

[Tom]

Looking at the mechanics of it, it seems that when you leave the Nexus you replace the version of yourself that was already there. Technically there should have been 2 Picards and 1 Kirk fighting Soran. I never really cared for the 'disappearing past self' idea. Remember the show 7 days, every time Frank would go back in time it was never explained what happened to his past self that was already there, I guess we are to assume he just 'disappears' as soon as his future self arrives. I suppose with Picard his conciousness could have just taken over his past self's body (similar to Quantum Leap in that regard) and Kirk would have physically manifested there anyway since he had no past self there.

 

[Jeyl]

I kind of think it's a very necessary and essential part of the storyline. Plus, the title of the movie is "Generations"...not simply referring to the show TNG or Kirk's appearance, but a reference to Picard's ancestry.

You're talking about the title, not the overall story.

The whole family death plot was only covered in one scene and didn't go anywhere after that. Seriously, if you remove that entire sub plot, nothing is lost. That Soran line "They say time is the fire in which we burn" in order to joust Picard could have been handled very differently, in fact not at all. If Picard gave Soran permission to go onboard the station, why didn't they contact them letting Laforge and Data know that he was coming? Communications wouldn't have been disrupted until Soran got onboard the station.

BAD WRITING ≠ Very necessary and eddential

 

[I am not Spock]

The Robert/Rene subplot did have significance to Picard's arc in this film. The Nexus presented him with a temptation. He could have remained in there, with his wife and family, and his nephew alive again. But he knew he had to go back and stop Soran.

Same with Kirk. The Nexus gave him the opportunity to live a nice quiet life in the mountains, and be with Antonia.

 

[22 Stars]

Whoever Antonia was.... The best thing about Generations is that the writers have admitted that they crammed too much into the script to try to satisfy everyone, instead of holding their ground and submitting a leaner, focused script. They were new feature writers and just didn't think they could say no.

You've got Klingons, Soran, Klingons dealing with Soran, the death of Picard's family, the destruction of the Ent-D, Kirk on the Ent.-B, Kirk's death, Data's emotion chip, The Nexus. Did I miss something? That's A LOT going on in one movie.

 

[kkozoriz1]

One word would have fixed that scene. Instead of Antonia he should have said Edith. Just as meaningless a name to those who don't know but a big pay off to those who do. It would really make it obvious just what Kirk was giving up by leaving the Nexus.