Was DS9 Unpopular Originally Early On..??
- Thread starter VulcanMindBlown
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I lived in some parts of the country where there were only network affiliates. TNG aired after the late news on Sunday, after which they ran DS9.
Not only had we just got new Star Trek, but we were going to get more new Star Trek. As an early teen fan, and knowing other guys, we were all pretty excited for it. There were a few B5 vs DS9 discussions, but it was always from an educated perspective (I.e in those days before Internet forums, people usually actually watched a show before going to bat....)
I remember that in my area, in the 93 timeframe, the same station was also airing other SF series like L&C: Superman, Seaquest DSV, Babylon 5 and Thunder In Paradise. But as I recall they usually aired them Saturday afternoons, L&C was on at like 1 in the afternoon and then SeaQuest & B5 were on from like 4-6, so by comparison, DS9 was being aired outside of “family” time on school nights at 10.
Oh, god, yes. There was lots of bitching about the fact that the show was set on a space station instead of a starship. Lots of jokes about it "boldly staying in one place," etc.
Heck, I remember at least one Trekkie friend complaining that, "well, it's good, but it's not STAR TREK."
Heck, I remember at least one Trekkie friend complaining that, "well, it's good, but it's not STAR TREK."
^There was also a lot of talk about the show being darker and grittier and whether Gene Roddenberry would have approved. I remember reading letters in the official Star Trek fanclub magazine, run by Dan Madsen, where fans complained that Rick Berman was breaking away from Gene's vision.
I wasn't a fan from the get-go. It was a weird experience for me. I thought "The Emissary" was one of the most interesting and unique Star Trek stories I'd ever seen (and still feel this way, honestly).
Then, the vast remainder of S1 happened and I could barely stay awake through the first 13 or so episodes. I remember being massively disappointed and kind of giving up because I disliked S1 so much. I didn't hate it or badmouth it, but I just didn't really care. It was dreadfully dull to me.
Then, I tried to jump in when they added the Defiant, Dominion and premiered "Way of the Warrior," but at that point I was in college and couldn't really watch regularly. That frustrated me even more as the serialized storytelling set in and the more you missed, the less things made sense.
Now, I'm grateful I had that experience because all these years later, I fairly recently watched it all the way through and was able to see 70% of it for the first time. I think DS9 is the best Trek produced in the modern/Berman era, hands down.
It's too bad it didn't really find the massive audience that TNG had, but I guess it didn't matter, as they went 7 seasons anyway.
I do remember a feel at conventions and stuff where the feel was DS9 was kind of the black sheep / little brother show. It had a really niche following, but not the broad love or appeal the other two had previously enjoyed.
Then, the vast remainder of S1 happened and I could barely stay awake through the first 13 or so episodes. I remember being massively disappointed and kind of giving up because I disliked S1 so much. I didn't hate it or badmouth it, but I just didn't really care. It was dreadfully dull to me.
Then, I tried to jump in when they added the Defiant, Dominion and premiered "Way of the Warrior," but at that point I was in college and couldn't really watch regularly. That frustrated me even more as the serialized storytelling set in and the more you missed, the less things made sense.
Now, I'm grateful I had that experience because all these years later, I fairly recently watched it all the way through and was able to see 70% of it for the first time. I think DS9 is the best Trek produced in the modern/Berman era, hands down.
It's too bad it didn't really find the massive audience that TNG had, but I guess it didn't matter, as they went 7 seasons anyway.
I do remember a feel at conventions and stuff where the feel was DS9 was kind of the black sheep / little brother show. It had a really niche following, but not the broad love or appeal the other two had previously enjoyed.
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Heck, you still see some fans arguing that DS9 sullied Roddenberry's "utopian" vision. Just start a thread on "In the Pale Moonlight" and see what happens. ..
DS9 started just before I went to college. I saw some of season 1 which was an uneven season (much like TNG to be honest). Then 4 years of college happened and I didn't watch much of anything. When I graduated they were into season 5 by that point and I was like who the Hell is the Dominion, what is a Jem'Hadar, who are the Founders? I gradually started figuring it all out and it made me want to see how the Dominion and the Founders were found since I missed those episodes. It was like 2 or 3 years before I finally saw those episodes.
Deep Space Nine ended up being a great Star Trek show. It's a unique show, there are some DS9 fans that are ONLY fans of DS9 and really don't care about the other shows, it was that unique.
It was darker, yes. But they were usually moving in a positive direction. You had Section 31, but then you had people like Bashir in Starfleet that refused to be tempted to the darker end. For every dark avenue in Starfleet there was someone at the other end. The Federation is run by imperfect beings that make mistakes. That's why it never bothered me that it wasn't pure utopia. Frankly it's unrealistic that it would be perfect. Of course there would be flaws. I don't think Rodenberry would have minded it because at the end of the day, whatever happened, the good guys won. The Federation defeated the Dominion. The coup on Earth did not succeed. The Federation regained peace with the Klingons and so on.
I've also heard complaints about the religious angle of DS9 but again, Rodenberry was always about examining all elements of humanity. Just because he was sort of agnostic I guess you can say about religion doesn't mean he'd feel it was a taboo subject. And I think that element was handled well in DS9 and they were never 'preachy' about religion. It was just an element to Bajoran society and it's reasonable to think that there'd be religious societies in Star Trek.
Deep Space Nine ended up being a great Star Trek show. It's a unique show, there are some DS9 fans that are ONLY fans of DS9 and really don't care about the other shows, it was that unique.
It was darker, yes. But they were usually moving in a positive direction. You had Section 31, but then you had people like Bashir in Starfleet that refused to be tempted to the darker end. For every dark avenue in Starfleet there was someone at the other end. The Federation is run by imperfect beings that make mistakes. That's why it never bothered me that it wasn't pure utopia. Frankly it's unrealistic that it would be perfect. Of course there would be flaws. I don't think Rodenberry would have minded it because at the end of the day, whatever happened, the good guys won. The Federation defeated the Dominion. The coup on Earth did not succeed. The Federation regained peace with the Klingons and so on.
I've also heard complaints about the religious angle of DS9 but again, Rodenberry was always about examining all elements of humanity. Just because he was sort of agnostic I guess you can say about religion doesn't mean he'd feel it was a taboo subject. And I think that element was handled well in DS9 and they were never 'preachy' about religion. It was just an element to Bajoran society and it's reasonable to think that there'd be religious societies in Star Trek.
DS9's decline throughout it's entire run dealt with the blow of competing with other Trek shows which were catered far better than it. TNG was the gold star series and was running on all cylinders in the 6th season when DS9 debuted it's mid season run, and VOY was the tentpole to launch a legit network. IMO the stories became very cookie cutter after season 4 and lacked the depth of 3 dimensional facets it once had.
DS9 had some strict rules--which I could see-- would get Trekfans frustrated. They couldn't just fly away from a subject matter because THAT matter could and will metastasize in a later date. So it had to be solved right there and right now. The enemy is my friend and these guys are not the typical Star Trek enemy you can simply go guns blazing; and it would hurt what the goal was, and that's to get both the Cardassians and the Bajorans to make peace, and bring Bajor as a member of the Federation. Of course none of that ever happened.
The station is far away from the Federation frontier, so this means they are alone and whatever back up which could come would be too late, so these crusaders had to use their wits to work out any topic in the star system. It's compelling television to me because the characters are so aware of the rules they run with it, and also, they get to learn even the so called enemy could actually side with the good guys, and in many turns the ally is as dangerous as the enemy.
DS9 used to be a chess match in it's first 3 seasons; long, calculating so the audience fully understood the stakes and the conclusions were not popular but it was what it was. Unfortunately, the good guys don't get an overall victory but in this new world the prize of compromise is what had to be.
Compromise.
Which means no war, no mining the wormhole, and having the Star Trek Universe be broader (Klingons, Romulans etc. too far away), but after season 3 the show became checkers because the producers didn't have much of an imagination to stay the course; they sold out the series to have another super bad threat, bigger than the Borg, shoving Worf into it, and every fanwank fantasy was brought into it (who wants a relationship with who??? Characters who were established and now are what??? Zero restrictions of the Defiant cloaking, and the entire senior staff is joyriding on the ship) even if it doesn't make any sense.
I believed there were DS9 fans or viewers, like me, who were detested the producers went in the direction they went and either left the series completely or migrated to Voyager exclusively. Also, the series didn't get much support when TNG films were not well received, even when First Contact was a huge hit by the numbers, while losing their identity monkeying the FC outfits and Voyager claiming theirs.
Was DS9 unpopular early on? The answer was no but like a lot of spinoffs it had a steady decline.
I liked DS9 from the get-go. The sets are realistic and weren’t dated IMO.
I felt of all the series DS9 was the easiest for me to get into. Being born in 1990 made it tougher with the earlier ones. TNG was super 80s, especially the pilot episode. I couldn’t get past Troi’s hair at first. Obviously TOS was cringey with the sets and over-sexualization of the female characters. It was just so foreign from the modern TV shows I was used to watching.
Personally I think DS9 is the most “timeless” of all the series.
I felt of all the series DS9 was the easiest for me to get into. Being born in 1990 made it tougher with the earlier ones. TNG was super 80s, especially the pilot episode. I couldn’t get past Troi’s hair at first. Obviously TOS was cringey with the sets and over-sexualization of the female characters. It was just so foreign from the modern TV shows I was used to watching.
Personally I think DS9 is the most “timeless” of all the series.
Never knew that. Suppose TNG had stopped after those 13 eps, then its last episode would have had a rather cynical title.....
I think early DS9 got great ratings, back when its tone was a lot like Next Gen's. Then at some point in the middle, I remember its being said once that it was the highest rated syndicated show on the air. Later as DS9 got more experimental, ratings dropped and it was a struggle to keep from being cancelled.
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Fan feeling was the other way around. Little enthusiasm for the first 2 seasons, much enthusiasm for the later war and story arc.
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I think DS9 was very consistently well written throughout, but early on, had trouble attracting people and getting them to hang in there. For one thing, they dropped Bajor and all its culture and politics on us as if we're supposed to be fascinated... you have to grab people with more exciting things than that right off, if you expect viewers ever to care about the minutae of Bajor someday.
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So, DS9 is best watched starting with season 3 or 4. Then when you know the characters and playing field thoroughly, then it's time for DS9: The Prequel, and that's the first 2 or 3 seasons. I really took to that era, watched that way.
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Fan feeling was the other way around. Little enthusiasm for the first 2 seasons, much enthusiasm for the later war and story arc.
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I think DS9 was very consistently well written throughout, but early on, had trouble attracting people and getting them to hang in there. For one thing, they dropped Bajor and all its culture and politics on us as if we're supposed to be fascinated... you have to grab people with more exciting things than that right off, if you expect viewers ever to care about the minutae of Bajor someday.
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So, DS9 is best watched starting with season 3 or 4. Then when you know the characters and playing field thoroughly, then it's time for DS9: The Prequel, and that's the first 2 or 3 seasons. I really took to that era, watched that way.
^At the time there was a feeling DS9 was getting desparate for attention and ratings in season 3 and 4. In season 2 DS9 had found its own identity and it compared favorably to TNG's 7th season. I had lost interest after Worf joined the show but the writing got so strong in the second half of season 4 that I couldn't stop watching. By then the ratings were pretty disappointing despite the quality of the show.
One thing I always felt was since VOYAGER got so much attention by Berman and the suits due to it launching UPN, and TNG of course being the breadwinner of the franchise at that time, DS9 suffering from 'middle child syndrome' was quite accurate.
But that actually was a good thing. If tge suits or Berman got more involved, DS9 would likely have turned out a bit different, and not necessarily for the better. In fact, I highly doubt it would be as good.
And a lot of the characters on DS9, at one time or another, mirrored the outcast, black sheep situation of the series itself.
Garak from Cardassia. Odo from his people, though self done. Worf from the Klingons. Quark for half a season.
But outcasts are often VERY interesting, and among the interesting people you'll ever meet. Odo himself said, "Being an outcast is not so bad. It offers one a unique perspective."
And that is another of the core reasons why DS9 was so great, and how it is my favorite of the franchise.
But that actually was a good thing. If tge suits or Berman got more involved, DS9 would likely have turned out a bit different, and not necessarily for the better. In fact, I highly doubt it would be as good.
And a lot of the characters on DS9, at one time or another, mirrored the outcast, black sheep situation of the series itself.
Garak from Cardassia. Odo from his people, though self done. Worf from the Klingons. Quark for half a season.
But outcasts are often VERY interesting, and among the interesting people you'll ever meet. Odo himself said, "Being an outcast is not so bad. It offers one a unique perspective."
And that is another of the core reasons why DS9 was so great, and how it is my favorite of the franchise.
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