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Was DS9 "Past Tense"'s 2024 an alternate universe?

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Plateshutoverlock

Ensign
Newbie
Ok, DS9 was trying to predict a 2024 that was decades away vs Picard showing a 2024 that was only a couple years away, but the differences between the two depictions are striking so...

- DS9 2024: Internet computer terminals are bulky and cludgy, with a small CRT screen, and based on an "interactive TV" model with channels, rather than the internet as we know of it today, and a license is required to use it. Bulky early 90s style flip phones are still in use.

At the same time, clothing styles are more futuristic, resembling the kind of fashions that are standard in the 24th century. Europe is falling apart with the Neo-Trotskyists and Goalists trying to suppress student uprisings. Walled in "sanctuary districts" in every major US city, and most of this two parter takes place inside one of those districts.

Picard 2024: Very much like now. Smartphones, sleek laptops and big LCD computer monitors, etc. Clothing is the same as you would expect in the late 20th, early 21st century. No mention of the crisis unfolding in Europe. No sanctuary district in sight, and only a passing mention of one near thr US/Mexico border. Also, no mention at all of Sisco, Bashir, or Dax being in the same year as they are.
 
Enough people were whinging about how Picard wasn't realistic enough as it is without making 2 years from now look like a 90s imagined future

It's not even the first time it's happened it trek.

The 1996 scenes in futures end and the 2004 scenes in Carpenter Street all showed tech that was more advanced than what 2024 supposedly would have.

As for not mentioning Dax, sisko etc I'd imagine that they're accidental mission to the past was classified. Not one person in Picards crew had any connection to any of the the Ds9 lot that were in San Francisco. Why do people expect everyone to know all about every mission that every other officer is involved in?
 
Plateshutoverlock said:
No sanctuary district in sight, and only a passing mention of one near thr US/Mexico border.
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There are also signs for Sanctuary Districts all over the place in the early episodes.
Plateshutoverlock said:
Also, no mention at all of Sisco, Bashir, or Dax being in the same year as they are.
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Why would there be? This season took place in April of 2024, DS9 Past Tense was set in September. What was someone supposed to say something like "oh, let's linger for another five months so we can meet Captain Sisko"?
The_Baron said:
Why do people expect everyone to know all about every mission that every other officer is involved in?
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Well, these days Lower Decks shows Boimler and Mariner do know all about every mission that every other officer was involved in.
 
Plateshutoverlock said:
Was DS9 "Past Tense"'s 2024 an alternate universe?
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No. The changes had direct impact to the main timeline (multiple times through-out the episode). Therefore, the 2024 in Past Tense is clearly the past of the 24th Century in Past Tense, so same universe (Star Trek main universe).

Only remaining possibility of an "alternative universe" would therefore be that the whole PIC series is in a different universe then the DS9 series. But, I don't think that this is the intention of the authors.

Lord Garth said:
DS9's version of 2024 is wrong while PIC's version is right.
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Well, no. Europa mission, Soong's sun blocking drones, etc. That's with at least 99.9% likelihood not what 2024 actually will be.

I agree with you that both are prognoses how 2024 will look like, DS9 30 years before the actual year, PIC 2 years before the actual year. So, since it is much more difficult to make a 30 year guess, naturally the DS9 prognosis has more differences than the PIC prognosis. But also one has to say that terrifyingly much of the DS9 dystopia of 2024 has happened between 1995 and 2024.
Then, on the other hand, the PIC prognosis of just 2 years is naturally very near to the reality. But we can already now (2022) say that there are glaring differences to the actual reality of 2024.
 
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The_Baron said:
As for not mentioning Dax, sisko etc I'd imagine that they're accidental mission to the past was classified.
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Why should that mission be classified? That's some anti-democratic bullshit to classify everything.

The_Baron said:
Not one person in Picards crew had any connection to any of the the Ds9 lot that were in San Francisco. Why do people expect everyone to know all about every mission that every other officer is involved in?
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That's the right question. And it even allows the author to randomly mention some stuff and ignore other stuff, e.g.
Picard in PIC 2x05 Fly Me to the Moon said:
Supervisors.
Kirk's Enterprise crossed paths with a human called Gary... Gary Seven.
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"No mention of the crisis unfolding in Europe"

- Doesn't mean there isn't one.

"No sanctuary district in sight, and only a passing mention of one near thr US/Mexico border."

-There was a sign for one in LA also. I don't think the implication from DS9 was that entire cities became sanctuary districts. LA is a big area and the crew didn't get thrown in one. Just because I don't see homeless encampments in my day to day life in my major U.S. city where I live doesn't mean they don't exist - because they do.

"Also, no mention at all of Sisco, Bashir, or Dax being in the same year as they are"

-Why would they be mentioned? There was no need - as it was people were complaining about the 2 Kirk mentions this season and those were directly relevant. Would this line have made anything better? Picard "I once read a report that said Sisko and some of his crew also traveled to 2024 30 years ago from the time we came from."
 
It’s the same timeline.

- They still had an internet in DS9.

- Both DS9 and PIC had Sanctuary Districts; in both cases, only the ones in California (the one on the border is presumable in Cali) are seen when its supposed to be nationwide by this point.

- Brynner exists in both timelines; in PIC, he’s fighting unionization efforts according to an LA Times newspaper Q was reading dated January 2024, while in DS9 he helps Dax circa end of August/beginning of September and hacks into the Sanctuary District computers.

- The use of the police chief using a dumb phone makes sense in today’s world of hacking. Its may have been more a security measure than anything else, meaning it’s a government issued phone.

- It was established that there was an economic downturn in DS9 preceding the Bell Riots. If it was depression level event, then using the bulky computers makes sense as the government is trying to save some cash. Meanwhile, a webpage in PIC says that real estate market is booming. Granted, there is still 4 ½ months between the events of PIC and the events of DS9 for an economic downturn to happens. And its possible that like the dumb cell phone the police chief uses, it was a security measure to prevent hacking from foreign groups, meaning they are government issued computers. Now, Brynner had one in his office too, but maybe he thought those computers were safer than the laptops and tablets available to the public and pulled some strings to get one of his own? He is a wealthy businessman, after all.

- A webpage in PIC mentions a conflict entering 30 days and the US President stalling talks amid unrest, while DS9 discusses unrest in Europe involving the Neo-Trotskyites and Gaullists. Maybe they are the same thing?

- With forest fires, they happen every year in California; they are only shown in PIC due to ties to climate change.

- There was no ICE in DS9, but DS9 was made before 9/11 and the creation of Homeland Security and ICE. And 9/11 happened in the Trek universe, according to Enterprise.

- UHC cards are mentioned by both the ICE officers and by the Sanctuary District security guards.

- PIC doesn’t mention a Pan-Caribbean group. But they don’t mention Irish reunification in 2024 either. Regarding for Irish reunification in 2024, maybe you should check out the recent election results in Ireland. Seems relevant.

The_Baron said:
As for not mentioning Dax, sisko etc I'd imagine that they're accidental mission to the past was classified. Not one person in Picards crew had any connection to any of the the Ds9 lot that were in San Francisco. Why do people expect everyone to know all about every mission that every other officer is involved in?
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O’Brien was once apart of Picard’s crew. You’d think he’d mention it to Worf, or Picard if they ever decided to catch up.

Plus, Rios mentioned meeting Quark before. There’s a good chance he met him on DS9, and thus could have met Kira, Bashir or Ezri (who’s have Jadzia’s memories) on the station too.
 
I think it's best to think of STAR TREK as taking place in a Marvel Universe-esque alternate reality.

It's VERY similar to our reality.

Even when it doesn't make sense given all the things that the shows add to our reality.

However, I admit whenever I see a discontinuity, I just assume it's because of all the time travel taking place.
 
FederationHistorian said:
O’Brien was once apart of Picard’s crew. You’d think he’d mention it to Worf, or Picard if they ever decided to catch up.

Plus, Rios mentioned meeting Quark before. There’s a good chance he met him on DS9, and thus could have met Kira, Bashir or Ezri (who’s have Jadzia’s memories) on the station too.
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O'brien telling Worf is realistic to be fair. (Unless of course the mission was classified which considering it resulted in a starfleet officer replacing a historical figure it might well be)

But Worf then passing that info on to picard even in casual conversation? Worf wasn't involved in it in any way. It'd be second hand information at best, thin on detail and likely of very little interest to Picard unless it directly connected to a mission.

Rios hearing from Quark or ezri etc is even more of a stretch. I very much doubt starfleet officers casually talk about missions with strangers, starfleet or not.

Very likely there are crew aboard the Defiant who didn't even know what was going on.
 
Star Trek is perhaps the most complex media universe ever created. I mean, we're on the eleventh television series. Plus thirteen feature films. Spanning over 55 years and countless producers, writers, directors, etc. I think it's absolutely remarkable that they've done as good a job as they have of keeping it all internally consistent. There has to be some leeway because it's entertainment and sometimes a story dictates taking some liberties. But I have no complaints about how well the Trek universe has held together overall.
 
If each crews that went into the past had taken extended stays - and if none of the time travel episodes were altered - it would've been hilarious to see Voyager's crew ("Future's End") eventually run into Sisko, Bashir and Jadzia, ("Past Tense") plus Picard, Raffi and crew, and stay long enough to see Enterprise-E show up in orbit to stop the Borg sphere ("FC"). They'd all look at each other like, "Oh dear. You too?" That'd be one way to get a bunch of the captains together. :lol:
 
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Plateshutoverlock said:
Ok, DS9 was trying to predict a 2024 that was decades away vs Picard showing a 2024 that was only a couple years away, but the differences between the two depictions are striking so...

- DS9 2024: Internet computer terminals are bulky and cludgy, with a small CRT screen, and based on an "interactive TV" model with channels, rather than the internet as we know of it today, and a license is required to use it. Bulky early 90s style flip phones are still in use.

At the same time, clothing styles are more futuristic, resembling the kind of fashions that are standard in the 24th century. Europe is falling apart with the Neo-Trotskyists and Goalists trying to suppress student uprisings. Walled in "sanctuary districts" in every major US city, and most of this two parter takes place inside one of those districts.

Picard 2024: Very much like now. Smartphones, sleek laptops and big LCD computer monitors, etc. Clothing is the same as you would expect in the late 20th, early 21st century. No mention of the crisis unfolding in Europe. No sanctuary district in sight, and only a passing mention of one near thr US/Mexico border. Also, no mention at all of Sisco, Bashir, or Dax being in the same year as they are.
Click to expand...

That's the stuff you DO ignore and realize that DS9 was made before smart phones. Also desktop computers really have not changed much in 25 years. Well some anyways. Still lots of bulky terminals used today and my bulky desktop computer i use now resembles my bulky desktop computer from 1996/97.

Clothing styles looked ok in the sanctuary district's ( the district's were indeed mentioned in the Picard )

But yeah the cloths that Dax and what's his name worr were trying to predict 2024 styles and they got it wrong of course. Clothing styles today have not changed much at all since the late 90's. I still wear the same damn styles I wore back than. Jean's and "Eisenhower" jackets.lol
 
They don't take place in alternate universes, just alternate cities. It's a shame La Sirena's crew never went over to San Francisco, as it would've all looked exactly like it did in Past Tense :p
 
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