Was blowing up Romulus a good idea?

[The Wormhole]

Save for how it impacted Nero.

True, but you didn't really need to destroy Romulus itself for that. Just have a Romulan colony world destroyed, or have Nero's family killed in some other manner, their transport was destroyed by Klingons and Federation rescue was late or whatever. Or if you're going to destroy Romulus, make it Kelvin Romulus, Nero and his crew are among the few survivors, they pimp out their mining ship and attack and destroy Vulcan. Basically the plot of the Countdown comic becomes part of the movie. The only drawback is there's no need for Leonard Nimoy to show up in this storyline.

 

[locutus101]

True, but you didn't really need to destroy Romulus itself for that. Just have a Romulan colony world destroyed, or have Nero's family killed in some other manner, their transport was destroyed by Klingons and Federation rescue was late or whatever. Or if you're going to destroy Romulus, make it Kelvin Romulus, Nero and his crew are among the few survivors, they pimp out their mining ship and attack and destroy Vulcan. Basically the plot of the Countdown comic becomes part of the movie. The only drawback is there's no need for Leonard Nimoy to show up in this storyline.

That's a serious drawback.

 

[The Wormhole]

Maybe. As great as it was to see Nimoy on screen again, it might have been of greater benefit to have the new crew truly stand on their own straight away without the whole "we're still attached to the old Star Trek canon, see, here's Leonard Nimoy."

 

[Grendelsbayne]

The German bit off more than they could chew and that was their ultimate undoing. Had they consolidated their position they could have lasted much longer. Fortunately for us they didn't.


Yes, but we weren't supported much by the locals and that made us drastically inferior in numbers. They were also willing to sacrifice a great deal more than the American troops were.

Which is just as I said. Technological advantages can be overcome by other factors. We're talking about fictional conflicts that have almost no specific details connected to them yet, so there's absolutely no logical reason why we have to assume that they were necessarily 'fair fights' in every respect except technology.

They have about 30 enemies, probably more than 50 because of Voyager, they got rid of the most boring ones homeworld, not killed off their race or their fleet.

That's a pretty laughable backhanded insult at the Romulans considering you're talking about a universe that ncludes the Kazon, the Sona'a, the Xindi, the Sheliak and several dozen copy/paste evil energy beings/godlike civilizations.

Apparently, the loss of a homeworld isn't as big a threat as the constant worries over Earth would have us think.

With something like the Federation, Klingon or Rihansu Empires etc, enough of a population has spread out to prevent extinction and provide resources to stave off climatiological collapse.

Qo'Nos certainly has a much more bleak atmosphere with Klingons huddled inside a lot more than the beautiful blue version in Enterprise where they were frequently outdoors, so it did have some effect.

I think they were panicking over it more than they should have been in TUC, and Gorkin used it to his adventage to push for peace. Probably why Chang did what he did, knowing he could sabotage the peace talks and still have a powerful enough Empire by the time the dust settled.

I never interpreted the worries about Earth as having anything to do with the downfall of the Federation. An enemy being able to damage or destroy Earth is terrifying because Earth is deep in Federation space, it's one of the most well defended planets in the Federation and there's tons of innocent people living on it. It would be a tangible tragedy of untold proportions and, if at the hands of an enemy, a psychological defeat of monumentous significance. But it obviously would not destroy the Federation, nor Starfleet, and even the Federation govt. would presumably be back online fairly quickly.

 

[Tenacity]

Save for how it impacted Nero.

Nero: The federation prevented the supernova from destroying any other Romulans systems while my own government did nothing.

The federation must be punished.

 

[locutus101]

Maybe. As great as it was to see Nimoy on screen again, it might have been of greater benefit to have the new crew truly stand on their own straight away without the whole "we're still attached to the old Star Trek canon, see, here's Leonard Nimoy."

It's a long standing ST tradition to connect the series to each other and the movies to the series.

 

[The Wormhole]

It's a long standing ST tradition to connect the series to each other and the movies to the series.

The point of rebooting the franchise should be to abandon whatever traditions had gone on before, but instead we get "it's a whole new timeline, canon, and continuity. Which, by the way is still connected to the old one."

 

[DonIago]

Frankly I'm glad they had Nimoy in '09. I wasn't expecting his cameo in ID but it doesn't particularly bother me, and I think he gets a great send-off in Beyond.

 

[fireproof78]

Nero: The federation prevented the supernova from destroying any other Romulans systems while my own government did nothing.

The federation must be punished.

The Federation promised to save Romulus. They failed to do that, and in so doing, caused the death of my wife. The only way to protect Romulus now is to free it from the Federation.

Not, it's not logical. It's irrational and psychotic. And I find it fascinating.

 

[locutus101]

The point of rebooting the franchise should be to abandon whatever traditions had gone on before, but instead we get "it's a whole new timeline, canon, and continuity. Which, by the way is still connected to the old one."

I am not sure it's beneficial to do a COMPLETE reboot.

 

[The Wormhole]

I am not sure it's beneficial to do a COMPLETE reboot.

Why not? It's been done before, sometimes to great success, like with BSG.

 

[locutus101]

Why not? It's been done before, sometimes to great success, like with BSG.

Is that what they've done? Funny thing is that I have the dvds for that series but I haven't gotten around to seeing it, yet.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Maybe. As great as it was to see Nimoy on screen again, it might have been of greater benefit to have the new crew truly stand on their own straight away without the whole "we're still attached to the old Star Trek canon, see, here's Leonard Nimoy."

There's a reason to argue that the "torch had to passed" and there was no better man to do it than Nimoy.

 

[Tenacity]

The Federation promised to save Romulus

My understanding (perhaps flawed) is that the Federation didn't promise, Spock didn't either.

But Spock did try, what we saw was his own personal initiative.

 

[fireproof78]

My understanding (perhaps flawed) is that the Federation didn't promise, Spock didn't either.

But Spock did try, what we saw was his own personal initiative.

I can't find the exact quote but Spock mentions that he told the Romulans and convinced them of the plan and claims the failure for it too.

 

[Tenacity]

Spock did fail to save Romulas, but he did succeed in stopping the supernova. And I don't think he spoke for the Federation.

 

[fireproof78]

You're looking at it from a rational point of view. Nero lost his entire world and family in that destruction and went psychotic. He blames Spock and the Federation, by extension, for failing to protect his world.

 

[Romulan Loyalist]

Ok - Dunno if this has been covered much - so...

ST'09 establishes that Romulus is destroyed by a supernova - and that the evacuation of the planet was no where near complete.. So this would be 'hard canon'.

Soft canon - establishes that the Empire is basically dead and gone, replaced by some Republic (essentially the mirror situation of New Vulcan) that is essentially a play thing of the Klingons and Federation...

I am unsure as to the reason why Trek would suddenly all but remove one of the 3 major Powers... The evolution of the Empire into something less than a monster is something that is seen in many online sources (Memory Alpha, STO, etc etc,)

So what is a possible outcome? Is ST series and Movies going to possibly endeavor to prevent the atrocity, or at least save the majority of the Romulan people?? Will the Federation, with knowledge of the destruction of Billions, hold onto the Temporal Prime directive to keep the integrity of a timeline that is already blown to hell by Nero? (Perhaps a discussion about why Temporal Agents, or Capt. Braxton didn't simply show up - defend the Kelvin and put Nero back in his place and intercept Spock as well is in order...)

Timeline (Prime v Kelvin) in this situation is irrelevant - if a star went nova in prime, it would undoubtedly go nova in Kelvin - and no I do not think that it was the Iconians from STO who wanted to wipe out the Romulans - besides this is soft canon. By hard canon we only know they are decimated - and like Vulcans - near extinction -

Thoughts?

 

[The Old Mixer]

Ok - Dunno if this has been covered much - so...

Well, now that you mention it....Merged this into a recent existing thread on the topic.

 

[Greg Cox]

At the time they destroyed Romulus, there was no reason to think that we were ever going to see the Prime Universe onscreen again, so why not blow up Romulus? It's not like we were ever going to visit it again. Rebooting the franchise made the issue academic.

As for the new timeline, that's still a century ahead of the new movies. No reason to worry about it now.

Ditto for Discovery. Romulus's destruction is way down the road from their era, so it shouldn't have any impact on the new series.