Was blowing up Romulus a good idea?

[locutus101]

You said they removed story points that make Nero absurd.



Sometimes people are just apeshit crazy. Take the Colorado movie shooter, or Kim Jong-Un who executed his Education minister (with anti-aircraft guns ) for slouching during a meeting. People doing crazy things don't really need a motive.

I prefer stories where the Villain has something to say for himself. It makes the whole thing more interesting.

 

[BillJ]

I prefer stories where the Villain has something to say for himself. It makes the whole thing more interesting.

Depends what the villain is there for in any given situation. Nero was simply there as a catalyst for the events that lead to the crew getting together. In that capacity, it works for me. I love the performance Eric Bana gave.

Shinzon and Ru'afo had things to say for themselves, still part of two terrible movies.

 

[locutus101]

....

Shinzon and Ru'afo had things to say for themselves, still part of two terrible movies.

This is not why the movies stank.

 

[BillJ]

This is not why the movies stank.

Yes and no. But that's why I put "part of", there were other problems as well. Just because Shinzon and Ru'afo had more fleshed out motives and plans, didn't make them better characters. I find Ru'afo tedious, and Shinzon a missed opportunity.

Sometimes, less is more. Sometimes, fleshing out a character can be just as bad as revealing too little information about them.

All, in my opinion.

 

[locutus101]

Yes and no. But that's why I put "part of", there were other problems as well. Just because Shinzon and Ru'afo had more fleshed out motives and plans, didn't make them better characters. I find Ru'afo tedious, and Shinzon a missed opportunity.

Sometimes, less is more. Sometimes, fleshing out a character can be just as bad as revealing too little information about them.

All, in my opinion.

Those two were ill-conceived characters, fleshing them out only made that all the more obvious.

 

[Trekkin]

Funny enough, I like the 'conception' of those characters. It's the execution I have issues with.

Although I do love B-movies. It's possible that a blurb containing the words 'evil clone,' doesn't bother me like it really should...

 

[fenwyk79]

If we assume that ST09 going forward are an alternate timeline when Spock goes back why can't we just assume that the destruction of Romulus also took place in an alternate timeline as well? Just because ST09 had Romulus being destroyed doesn't mean it has to be our same "prime" timeline as well.

Also, I'm rather curious about how badly the destruction of Romulus ultimately ended up harming the overall Romulan Star Empire as well. The Rihannsu people have, no doubt, colonized dozens if not more worlds in their empire. How many Romulan vessels were actually in orbit of Romulus/Remus or nearby when it exploded? While it was a complete disaster in regard to civilians and morale it may have had only a slight impact on the actual fleet. The actual military may have had minimal damage done.

I find the concept that the destruction of Romulus/Remus would have necessarily been a major setback to the overall military (save for the praetor and Senate and operational headquarters). If anything, it could serve to strengthen them as the groveling politicians are now mostly all gone and what is left is the field commanders. It's also not as if there was no warning - no doubt most of all the more powerful leaders (including the Tal Shiar) would have left the planet before the destruction.

Of course, it would be most interesting if the only surviving member of the government was the Secretary of Education who became the de facto new praetor leading the fleet and the surviving members of their world out into space looking for a mythical Romulan homeworld discussed only in legend. Wait, that sounds familiar...

 

[Paradise City]

If Romulus is configured in any way like Qronos is in TUC, the Romulans are in big scthuck if they lose Romulus. Remus is a big mining colony as well so it might very well be a "key energy production facility" to use the lingo.

 

[The Old Mixer]

or Kim Jong-Un who executed his Education minister (with anti-aircraft guns ) for slouching during a meeting

And people thought that SPECTRE was just a larger-than-life fantasy....

It's at a Wily Coyote level really.

In this case, Marvin the Martian might be a more apt comparison.

 

[fireproof78]

Noone is articulating the position you posted in post 147. That's your attempt to poison the well.

And saying it's a bad idea is not some kind of outrageous input into this discussion either.

I don't categorically oppose blowing up Romulus if it's handled appropriately. But I dislike blowing up entire planets with all the depth of stomping on a beach ball and then dislocating the entire film for it to unfold in some other universe. That's just a cop out or a contrived way to shove in Nimoy. And it doesn't help that Nero isn't a particularly clear villain. He struggles for space with alot of the other noise going on in that film.

I cannot disagree more. I think that Romulus' destruction (even if the method was a bit bad science, but that's nothing new to Trek) was an interesting game changer. I think Nero is perfectly clear in his intent and his drive to avenge Romulus.

He's one of my top Trek film villains.

Anything else you would care to mention would be more apt than blowing up the planet like a beach ball and then waltzing off for the film to actually happen in some other place, lol. It's obviously a mangled way to shove in Nimoy and impress the kids with FX tidal waves. It's at a Wily Coyote level really.

What about the adults who were impressed too?

 

[The Wormhole]

What about the adults who were impressed too?

They're just paid by Abrams to say they were.

That's the line we're using this week, right guys? Or is it the stuff about "True Fans?"

 

[wayoung]

What are you guys talking about....??

Oh boy, you need to go to a library/bookstore STAT and get Dune by Frank Herbert. Then thank me.

 

[fireproof78]

They're just paid by Abrams to say they were.

That's the line we're using this week, right guys? Or is it the stuff about "True Fans?"

I can't remember who we are supposed to hate this week-Abrams or LIn? I know next year it's Fuller, but I keep getting this year's schedule mixed up.

Oh boy, you need to go to a library/bookstore STAT and get Dune by Frank Herbert. Then thank me.

I cannot endorse this enough. Can I start a KS to mail it them?

 

[Paradise City]

I cannot disagree more. I think that Romulus' destruction (even if the method was a bit bad science, but that's nothing new to Trek) was an interesting game changer. I think Nero is perfectly clear in his intent and his drive to avenge Romulus.

He's one of my top Trek film villains.

What about the adults who were impressed too?

I hadn't a clue what was going on with Nero watching it and neither did my friends (who otherwise liked the film) know what his purpose was either. He was barely sighted in the film itself. I remember having to dig him up on wiki that evening to figure out what was going on there and sure enough he's a swell guy if you read up on it but all of that struggles for a hearing with the rest of the noise and the action going on. If blowing up Romulus with all the gravity of popping a balloon and fleeing the scene works for you guys, I'm glad for that. But it didn't work for me. It was an awkward dramatic contraption to crowbar in Nimoy.

What about the adults who were impressed too?

We all like a little bit of confectionary, young and old, me included. But I go to the cinema for something broader and substantial and all I got was a nodal headache from tidal wave FX and dumb stuff like cadet to captain in a week. There was no villain in this film with a serious presence on-screen.

I don't care about the science one way or the other.

 

[Paradise City]

They're just paid by Abrams to say they were.

That's the line we're using this week, right guys? Or is it the stuff about "True Fans?"

That's a garbage post.

 

[fireproof78]

I hadn't a clue what was going on with Nero watching it and neither did my friends (who otherwise liked the film) know what his purpose was either. He was barely sighted in the film itself. I remember having to dig him up on wiki that evening to figure out what was going on there and sure enough he's a swell guy if you read up on it but all of that struggles for a hearing with the rest of the noise and the action going on. If blowing up Romulus with all the gravity of popping a balloon and fleeing the scene works for you guys, I'm glad for that. But it didn't work for me. It was an awkward dramatic contraption to crowbar in Nimoy.
We all like a little bit of confectionary, young and old, me included. But I go to the cinema for something broader and substantial and all I got was a nodal headache from tidal wave FX and dumb stuff like cadet to captain in a week. There was no villain in this film with a serious presence on-screen.

I don't care about the science one way or the other.

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it. I think you're missing out on a unique villain and a great contemporary story that is useful in many applications, like Star Trek does best. I'll always grant the cadet-to-captain thing, but that's a minor quibble in comparison to my larger enjoyment of the film.

I didn't read any of the ancillary material on Nero (still need to read Countdown and the novelization) and still mange to find his purpose. Maybe I should send you my edition of the film.

Other than that, obviously, YMMV and obviously does. Sorry that it doesn't work for you.

 

[wayoung]

I cannot endorse this enough. Can I start a KS to mail it them?

I'd say yes if we weren't talking about the bestselling sci - fi novel in history. What library doesn't have Dune? He/she shouldn't have trouble finding a copy to read at little to no expense

I've had to buy four copies over the years because friends borrowed it and never gave it back, except for one I lost in a hospital.

 

[fireproof78]

I'd say yes if we weren't talking about the bestselling sci - fi novel in history. What library doesn't have Dune? He/she shouldn't have trouble finding a copy to read at little to no expense

I've had to buy four copies over the years because friends borrowed it and never gave it back, except for one I lost in a hospital.

That sounds terrible...I can't recall what happen to my first copy but it definitely got given away. I hope to be able to do it again soon.

 

[wayoung]

That sounds terrible...I can't recall what happen to my first copy but it definitely got given away. I hope to be able to do it again soon.

Did you see that fantastic folio edition? If I was a millionaire...

I'm hoping someone does a literograph poster for it but haven't seen one yet. Rights probably cost too much, people tend to stick to public domain books for thosd.

 

[locutus101]

Did you see that fantastic folio edition? If I was a millionaire...
....

How much do you think something like that costs?