Exactly!
Was blowing up Romulus a good idea?
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Exactly!
Are Vulcans expansionist? I thought as a race that's been warp capable for a long time they are pretty non-agressive and certainly not expansionist. They explore everywhere and keen to meet new races and people but do not seem to be keen on subjugating the new people. Influencing them maybe but not with violence or the need to colonise them. The Romulans, on the other hand, are very much expansionists.
Which one? Time loop? Transporter genetic engineering? Khan blood? ...
Colonies are mentioned in several episodes, mostly as an aside. Expansion need not imply aggression.
ETA: That said, they are clearly involved in a territorial dispute in Cease Fire.
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Yes, the conflict with the Andorians. Ok, so maybe there was a time when Vulcans were somewhat expansionist, but this was from the time when Vulcans were led by V'Las, who was influenced or maybe even controlled by Romulans infiltrating his government.
It's a bit difficult for me to separate expansion with agression, I suppose. And Vulcans being not agressive, the word doesn't fit them. Somehow it's easier to attribute the word expansionist to the agressive Romulans.
Blowing up both Romulus and Vulcan was incredibly stupid, and that is one of the many reasons I loathe Abramstrek. It is an alternate timeline so I can more or less ignore it, especially the destruction of Vulcan. However, blowing up Romulus supposedly happened in the real (or "Prime") timeline, and that is just something I find hard to stomach. Let JJ do his destructive thing in his own sandbox, but don't pollute the neighbouring sandbox in the process.
So I tend to view all - everything depicted in these movies - as happening in an alternate timeline even before Nero arrived. There are things that happened in them besides the destruction of Romulus (like the look and feel of the Kelvin, the galactic geography, etc.) that make me come to this view.
The sad thing, though, is that apparently there is uncertainty about this when it comes to post-NEM, post-DS9, post-VOY stories, since Paramount owns what has been shown in the JJ-movies and CBS had the TV rights. And there has to my knowledge not been any Lit Trek set in the Abramsverse, but I think the Lit Trek set up the the real timeline is now close to catching up to this event (the destruction of Romulus) that they're not allowed to mention. This would also be a problem if and when they might decide on a TV series set in this era.
Given all that, my recommendation would be to say to them "frak it" and totally ignore the destruction of Romulus and continue with the real Star Trek as if that never happened. My head canon says anyway that it was not Prime Spock that went back in time to Abramstek, but an Alt-Prime Spock not related to the real Spock (never mind that he was played by Leonard Nimoy). Just as it was an Alt-Prime George Kirk that got killed, etc.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
So I tend to view all - everything depicted in these movies - as happening in an alternate timeline even before Nero arrived. There are things that happened in them besides the destruction of Romulus (like the look and feel of the Kelvin, the galactic geography, etc.) that make me come to this view.
The sad thing, though, is that apparently there is uncertainty about this when it comes to post-NEM, post-DS9, post-VOY stories, since Paramount owns what has been shown in the JJ-movies and CBS had the TV rights. And there has to my knowledge not been any Lit Trek set in the Abramsverse, but I think the Lit Trek set up the the real timeline is now close to catching up to this event (the destruction of Romulus) that they're not allowed to mention. This would also be a problem if and when they might decide on a TV series set in this era.
Given all that, my recommendation would be to say to them "frak it" and totally ignore the destruction of Romulus and continue with the real Star Trek as if that never happened. My head canon says anyway that it was not Prime Spock that went back in time to Abramstek, but an Alt-Prime Spock not related to the real Spock (never mind that he was played by Leonard Nimoy). Just as it was an Alt-Prime George Kirk that got killed, etc.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Star Trek goes back to nothing of consequence ever actually happening. I got tired of that when the Wormhole aliens made the Jem'Hadar fleet disappear and the constant reset button used on Voyager.
^ I'm not talking about an in-universe reset button (I don't particularly like them myself). I say just ignore it. Don't mention it. It never happened. I don't expect a new Batman film to acknowledge the existence of the Gotham TV series, or a Superman movie to pay heed to what happened on Smallville. They're all separate versions/visions.
Go with that on Trek as well. JJ can destroy as many planets as he like, and have Sherlock impersonate Khan as much as he likes. But pay it no mind in the other original Trek timeline.
Go with that on Trek as well. JJ can destroy as many planets as he like, and have Sherlock impersonate Khan as much as he likes. But pay it no mind in the other original Trek timeline.
But you're still going back to a formula where nothing of consequence actually happens.
Everyone can have his/her own head canon, picking and choosing whichever part one likes for it. But it doesn't change the real canon, which is already out there.Given all that, my recommendation would be to say to them "frak it" and totally ignore the destruction of Romulus and continue with the real Star Trek as if that never happened. My head canon says anyway that it was not Prime Spock that went back in time to Abramstek, but an Alt-Prime Spock not related to the real Spock (never mind that he was played by Leonard Nimoy). Just as it was an Alt-Prime George Kirk that got killed, etc.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Be that as it may, but it didn't happen. I don't think a new TV series (or Lit Trek) should be beholden to a stupid gimmick whose only purpose was to launch an alternate movie Trek.
I don't deny that Abramstrek is "out there" but there are so many inconsistencies with it when compared to Real Trek that the easiest way to get around it is to not having it interfere at all with the original timeline. And as long as Real Trek doesn't try and explain things depicted in Abramstrek (which they can't because those rights belong to Paramount) it works. All Trek fans have their own ways of explaining other contradictions. Myself, I also ignore TATV (which is also easy since it can be seen as an erroneous holonovel).
Pretty much everything in movies is a gimmick to get the story where writers need it to go. Or do we really believe Kirk was so senile that he wouldn't raise his shields?
I agree generally with what you are saying KTR. I don't even see it as impossible that they'll forget in some future project that they blew the damn planet up, lol. But I don't care that much either; it's only a TV show. Heck, from a Prime POV, Spock died in an MIA scenario and you just take it from there. Planets, stars do blow up n' all as we saw with Praxis and a multitude of other episodes and movies.
All Star Trek is owned by CBS. Even the Abrams movies are licensed to Paramount by CBS. If CBS wanted to do a TV show about the destruction of Romulus, they could and there's not a damn thing Paramount, Bad Robot or Abrams could do about it.
Bad Robot does have veto authority over tie-in material related to their movies, which gives them the right to forbid Pocket Books from touching the movies, as evidenced six years ago when the four Abramsverse novels that were planned were pulled at the last minute, thereby creating a gap in which there were no Trek novels for exactly one third of the year. Anyway, this does mean they can't touch the destruction of Romulus in the novels. This hasn't been much of an issue since 24th century novel continuity hasn't reached 2387 anyway, and there isn't a chance of them getting there any earlier than 2021.
I need help with your term Real Trek. Explain please. I get what you mean by Abramstrek, but who is Real Trek?
Of course, which is why I say JJ can knock himself out doing his thing, gimmicks and all. Just don't have it interfere with a different sandbox.
Gah, I promised myself when I returned to this board after 10 years that I wouldn't discuss Abramstrek, yet here we are. So to end where I began in this thread, yes it was stupid to blow up Romulus, not because of what occurs in the so called Kelvin timeline (I couldn't care less about that), but because it has long-ranging ramifications for the real timeline, should they decide to acknowledge it, which is why I would recommend to just ignore it. NEM did enough destruction to my favourite Rommies as it is.
"Real Trek" usually means "non-Abrams."
Ah, I see. Too bad. It would still open up a can-o'-worms which is one of the reasons I think they set the new show, Discovery, safely in the 23rd century.
That ought to be obvious. Real Trek is all the Trek that has happened in the proper, original timeline, i.e not the timeline depicted in the JJ-films.
It is all big dollar make believe. None of it is any more real than the rest. Heck, I find the Abrams films more like TOS than any of the spinoffs. Probably why I have such an affection for them.
As if I didn't understand that... But this is a Trek board, where we discuss what we think about Star Trek.
And I'm the opposite. I'm a big TOS fan and can't see a lot of similarities, other than superficial, with Abramstrek.
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