Warrior Race?

[therealfoxbat]

If Klingons are supposed to be this really badass warrior race, why can't they EVER kick ass on ANYONE? To be a WARRIOR race, you need to occasionally beat up SOMEBODY...

Klingons are essentially a biker gang in space. They ACT really badass, but they're remarkably easy to beat up if you actually fight them...

Remember when the Klingons tried to invade Deep Space Nine? That was when the Star Trek fans I know coined the phrase "popcorn ship." Later, when the Klingon boarding parties were about to beam onto Deep Space Nine, Gowron first shouted something to them in Klingon. I ***SWEAR*** there was a subtitle at the bottom of the screen that said, "Get them, my Putties!!!" At the end of the boarding party battle, ALL the bridge crew of Deep Space Nine were still standing, and about EIGHT TIMES as many Klingons were laying dead on the deck. There was not a single square foot of that deck NOT occupied by a dead Klingon...

This kind of reminds me of the French Foreign Legion. For those who don't know, the French Foreign Legion is a part of the French Army for people who are NOT from France. Anyone ever notice in the last 190 years, the ONLY unit in the WHOLE French army that's kicked ass on ANYBODY is the one with NO French guys...?

In the Future Of Trek, I for one would like to see some Klingons who actually KICK ASS...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Klingons don't just like to fight, they like to fight those who can fight BACK. So it stands to reason that sometimes they'd lose.

 

[Davros]

The Klingons don't just like to fight, they like to fight those who can fight BACK. So it stands to reason that sometimes they'd lose.

The episode A Private Little War would indicate that the Klingons have no problem with fighting those weaker than themselves. They even like it.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The Dominion War demonstrated what the Klingons' problem is: that they fight for the sake of fighting, not to achieve some goal (such as power or territorial expansion) which at certain times might be achieved better by running away and hiding or letting some other sucker do the fighting for ya. Klingons can't pull such "cowardly" stunts, which puts them at a distinct disadvantage to empires whose only goal is power and don't give a shit how they get it.

 

[therealfoxbat]

The Klingons don't just like to fight, they like to fight those who can fight BACK. So it stands to reason that sometimes they'd lose.

My point is that the writers seem to make sure they ALWAYS lose...

 

[Pemmer Harge]

This kind of reminds me of the French Foreign Legion. For those who don't know, the French Foreign Legion is a part of the French Army for people who are NOT from France. Anyone ever notice in the last 190 years, the ONLY unit in the WHOLE French army that's kicked ass on ANYBODY is the one with NO French guys...?

I'm dazzled by your knowledge of French military history

Anyway at some point between Visionary and The Way of the Warrior Deep Space Nine mysteriously became a structure of solid diamond, so it's unsurprising that the Klingons lost.

 

[O'Dib]

My point is that the writers seem to make sure they ALWAYS lose...

Unless they're allied with our heroes at the time, of course. Then they kick plenty of ass.

 

[Maestro]

Seems to me that the Klingons only get whooped by the Federation when it concerns whomever our heroes at the time are.

Once you get into Klingon space going away from the Fed border, they don't seem to have a problem conquering, and they usually don't seem to take a lot of whoopin' from the Romulans either.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Klingons are essentially a biker gang in space. They ACT really badass, but they're remarkably easy to beat up if you actually fight them...

I understand what you are going for, and I'm going on a limb here but I suspect that you never actually had a fight with a biker gang.

Remember when the Klingons tried to invade Deep Space Nine?

It is the curse of the klingons: to show that someone is really badass, you let them beat up a klingon. It's a narrative short-cut for letting the audience know that someone is a bad muthafucka. Just it was so overused that now the klingons look like pansies themselves.

This kind of reminds me of the French Foreign Legion. For those who don't know, the French Foreign Legion is a part of the French Army for people who are NOT from France. Anyone ever notice in the last 190 years, the ONLY unit in the WHOLE French army that's kicked ass on ANYBODY is the one with NO French guys...?

This kind of reminds me that you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Marie1]

Klingons are essentially a biker gang in space. They ACT really badass, but they're remarkably easy to beat up if you actually fight them...

I understand what you are going for, and I'm going on a limb here but I suspect that you never actually had a fight with a biker gang.

I for one eat biker gangs for breakfast... bikes are good for small target practice too!

But yeah- the Klingons have beaten up plenty of people, both as a race and as individuals. And it almost seems like they reached a peak, then didn't do as much technologically and scientifically (esp. medical care) in way, allowing species to pull ahead. Maybe the Klingons can get in a fight, but if another species can fix them up faster, they'll have an advantage in fight #2.

 

[T'Girl]

If anything Star Fleet is the warrior race.

Klingons are less a biker gang and more a group of wanta-be's getting into a parking lot fights after drinking all night. Or maybe they're like the Burma "military", great at subjugating a unarmed populace of farmers , but lame at fighting anyone who can fight back.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Klingons don't just like to fight, they like to fight those who can fight BACK. So it stands to reason that sometimes they'd lose.

The episode A Private Little War would indicate that the Klingons have no problem with fighting those weaker than themselves. They even like it.

Contrast this with that DS9 episode where Quark tries to defend himself against a Klingon (in front of the High Council) then throws his bat'leth away, knowing he can't possibly win. The other Klingon goes to attack him anyway, and the Council treats this as extremely dishonorable - attacking a weaker opponent who can't possibly resist.

Then again, as we've since seen, the TOS ep in question involved Klingons who weren't, well, on the level, if you know what I mean. QuchHa', as the novels call them. They didn't act like "real" Klingons, at least not fully.

 

[therealfoxbat]

I'm dazzled by your knowledge of French military history

That was meant strictly for laughs...

I understand what you are going for, and I'm going on a limb here but I suspect that you never actually had a fight with a biker gang.

It's a matter of context. Star Trek exists in television and movies, so I was referring to the kind of biker gang you find in television and movies...

This kind of reminds me of the French Foreign Legion. For those who don't know, the French Foreign Legion is a part of the French Army for people who are NOT from France. Anyone ever notice in the last 190 years, the ONLY unit in the WHOLE French army that's kicked ass on ANYBODY is the one with NO French guys...?

This kind of reminds me that you don't know what you are talking about.

Again, strictly meant for laughs...

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Look at Earth history, so-called warrior races are like a bright candle burning twice as fast. They burn out. Or get absorbed or get "civilized".

We don't fear Mongol hordes today or Vikings.

(Maybe we should, perhaps they want us to let our guard down. )

 

[therealfoxbat]

Another example was in ST6 The Undiscovered Country...

Someone in the production crew came up with the disastrous idea that Klingons have Pepto-Bismol for blood...

What the hell was that?

Once it was out that Klingon blood was Pepto Pink, I was able to razz the Excessively Rabid Klingon Fanboys for MONTHS on that point ALONE!!! It went something like this...

======================================

What the...?

Klingon blood is PEPTO PINK!!!

An ACTUAL warrior race would have blood that's dark red, dark green, dark blue or dark black...

NOT Pepto Pink...

What the hell kind of sissy ass My Little Pony planet did you evolve on if your blood is Pepto Pink...?

======================================

I admit that something like that would not be the fault of the Klingons...

However, my point is that the writers of Star Trek are constantly coming up with stuff that leaves the Klingons open to razzing like that. The Klingons are almost never portrayed as a warrior race so much as a SPOOF of a warrior race...

Star Trek Enterprise did a better job writing the Klingons than anything during the TMP or TNG eras. In the 22nd Century, people at least ACTED worried when they found out they were dealing with Klingons...

In the next Star Trek movie, I sincerely HOPE the Klingons will become what they were meant to be...

The Genghis Khan And His Mongol Hordes Of Space...

 

[Kaziarl]

Another example was in ST6 The Undiscovered Country...

Someone in the production crew came up with the disastrous idea that Klingons have Pepto-Bismol for blood...

What the hell was that?

Once it was out that Klingon blood was Pepto Pink, I was able to razz the Excessively Rabid Klingon Fanboys for MONTHS on that point ALONE!!! It went something like this...

======================================

What the...?

Klingon blood is PEPTO PINK!!!

An ACTUAL warrior race would have blood that's dark red, dark green, dark blue or dark black...

NOT Pepto Pink...

What the hell kind of sissy ass My Little Pony planet did you evolve on if your blood is Pepto Pink...?

======================================

I admit that something like that would not be the fault of the Klingons...

However, my point is that the writers of Star Trek are constantly coming up with stuff that leaves the Klingons open to razzing like that. The Klingons are almost never portrayed as a warrior race so much as a SPOOF of a warrior race...

Star Trek Enterprise did a better job writing the Klingons than anything during the TMP or TNG eras. In the 22nd Century, people at least ACTED worried when they found out they were dealing with Klingons...

In the next Star Trek movie, I sincerely HOPE the Klingons will become what they were meant to be...

The Genghis Khan And His Mongol Hordes Of Space...

About the blood, I kind of imagine they threw a dart at a color wheel. They figured humans are red, vulcans are green, andorians are presumably blue (although i can't think of a specific time I've seen one bleed right now) so they simply had to come up with a different color.

And as for them acting like the mongol hordes, I honestly hope it doesn't get that far. I've always liked to think of klingons as beeing more then just warriors, and felt that treks portrayal in that area is a bit lacking. I mean they say they have grand architecture, epic songs, and things of that nature, but we never REALLY see it outside of a couple of side comments. (Shakespeare in the original klingon for example)

 

[FordSVT]

Look... Klingons are supposed to be bad ass. SUPPOSED to be. But like every other thing in Star Trek, their actions are dictated by plot needs. If it was "realistic", the 230 pounds Klingon would rip Jadzia's head off and pull out her heart and eat it, but the plot need dictates that she win. Same with the Jem'Hadar, the Borg, various god-like races.... the plot dictates how fast ships travel and how powerful they are compared to one another. The heroes need to win, dumbing down the enemy temporarily or bolstering the heroes' abilities seems to be the lazy way of writing a story, but there you go, it's done quite often.

 

[Makerstrauss]

In "Warrior Race, "Lawrence James draws on the latest historical and archaeological research,as well as numerous previously untapped resources,to chart the full reach of British military history.But "Warrior Race "is more than just a compelling historical narrative.James skillfully weaves together the many themes of his subject,discussing the rise, survival and reinvention of chivalry.

 

[Nick086]

The Klingons are warriors when it comes to ground combat. When its up in the space they don't really stand a chance anymore. Like they once did in 22nd century when the Federation and the Romulans had fewer vessels. If Praxas wasn't destroyed.(their key element of obtaining vast amounts of resources.) They would still be consider a challenging foe to the Federation. Who knows the Romulans and Federation might of ended up as likely allies. The Klingons were still using their D-7 battle cruisers in the 23th century. The Klingon BOP were still being used, but were consider a new ship the Federation would likely face in the late 22nd century. If I remember correctly the Germans were the majority in the French Foreign Legion. While french numbers were quite small in the Foreign Legion.

 

[scotpens]

. . . Then again, as we've since seen, the TOS ep in question involved Klingons who weren't, well, on the level, if you know what I mean. QuchHa', as the novels call them. They didn't act like “real” Klingons, at least not fully.

Being a Trek TOS fan since the show debuted in 1966, as far as I'm concerned the more human-looking Klingons ARE the “real” ones. The guys with the funny foreheads are impostors!