Warp Space Charts

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by blssdwlf, Apr 15, 2011.

  1. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    A bit like a nautical chart but for warp space. This one is specific to TOS and the first 4 (perhaps 6) movies but excluding TAS and is drawn as a cross-section. Basically, charted warp speed from TOS is

    • slowest next to a planet/star (below sublight),
    • slow up to the 3rd planetary orbit,
    • very fast in open space between systems,
    • and slows down again between galaxies...
    Of course this isn't the same as what happened in later Trek productions and this chart is specific to the TOS-universe.

    Were there any TOS examples that I missed?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Mister_Atoz

    Mister_Atoz Commander Red Shirt

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    Nice work!

    I've always imagined that the inconsistencies in warp speed, and the reason we never hear the crew give specifics of what each warp factor represents can be explained by the fact that warp travel is greatly effected by navigational obstacles.
     
  3. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    Brilliant work! As far as I'm concerned, this is the new official in my personal Trek Universe!

    --Alex
     
  4. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Thanks :) One more, this one of TNG production onwards (TNG, Voyager). Haven't had much time to research Enterprise series. The curve is based on dialogue so let me know if I'm missing any examples.

    In TNG+, it would appear that subspace plays a role in making or breaking warp engine operation (like subspace sandbars) but I haven't found anything that seems to have the same terrain/speed cost that is apparent in TOS.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    For Voyager: don't forget Tom's reference in "The 37s."

    For TOS: I'm curious whether or not the speeds mentioned might actually work out on an acceleration-deceleration curve: the ship accelerating to a maximum velocity for the first half of the trip and then decelerating on the second half. It kind of already looks that way for "Tomorrow is Yesterday," but it might work out that ALL of the cases here would be a similar curve between two destinations with a peak velocity along the way between each.
     
  6. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    I've got the 37's as the last data point for WF 9.9. Thanks!

    I think not all cases would be applicable to a 1/2 acceleration and deceleration curve in TOS because I don't see a correlation for length of time accelerating and "average" speed. Warp Factor 8.3 for 11 hours ("That Which Survives") is significantly faster than Warp Factor 11 for 300 years ("By Any Other Name"). A 30 second hop over 1/16 parsec ("Breads and Circuses") is significantly faster than a 4 hour Warp 9 dash in "The Paradise Syndrome".

    "Tomorrow is Yesterday" gives us an indication of the Enterprise's warp acceleration ability inside the 3rd planet orbit though. Leaving Earth orbit, she is passing Warp 8 before reaching Mercury's orbit and technically she never slows down. In the chart, I just made warp space slow down below the speed of light as it gets closer to large masses. So in that sense, the Enterprise doesn't brake at all as it is slingshot around the Sun and out of the solar system where it does eventually brake.

    I am also leveraging the phrase "light speed breakaway" as described in "Assignment Earth" as the Enterprise whips around the Sun at light speed (or slower) and breaks away from it :)

    TNG+ could go either way. There are not many data points to reference.
     
  7. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Alternately, we might be seeing time dilation near large masses. That is, the ship whips around the Sun in a fraction of a second, but our heroes can have five minutes of dialogue within that fraction.

    If Spock looped around a massive star on his way from Miramanee's planet to the asteroid (which was indeed later shown to be approaching from the direction of the star), then he might have spent several hours at it while mere seconds passed for Kirok down on the planet. Naturally, Spock would have no reason to worry about Kirk's fate in that case, not until the ship broke down. In this model, the asteroid wouldn't need to be particularly far away or particularly fast, which is good for many reasons...

    For all we know, similar dilation happened in "Bread and Circuses" and we just missed the cut in the action. That is, Chekov was speaking in terms of the target planet, even though he should have been more interested about the time wasted in the subjective POV.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  8. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    It's possible there is some time dilation near large masses although I think it is more likely ships at warp are slowed down near them instead.

    It could be that for TOS, large masses pull the ship toward it and the warp drive has to compensate more in order to keep position. Or that it takes more warp power to operate near one and large masses like stars create a radius of 1-2 AU of massive space drag due to gravity or magnetic fields or some other warp space effect. This works out in TOS for all instances where warp travel occurs within 1-2 au of a star and also when the BOP warps out of the atmosphere in "The Voyage Home" without having to invoke time-dilation, IMHO :)
     
  9. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Cool! Of course dark matter would affect warp speeds more than anything and else and I think this is why the navigator's role in TOS was so important. It's also so widespread that it allows the writers to make sh*t up and blame the dark matter the same way Lucy Lawless blamed wizards.
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, dialogue confirms that time aboard ships that warp near stars does not merely dilate - it actually reverses its flow! :vulcan:

    When time is of essence in insystem maneuvering, such as with Spock reaching the asteroid before the deflection point in "Paradise Syndrome", high warp would be the technique of choice even if it meant agonizingly slow hours for the people onboard. When time is not of essence, sublight travel (often in a shuttlecraft, even) would be chosen: it gets you there more slowly, but the trip doesn't last as long...

    (Of course, there's a break-even point between slow/short-duration impulse and fast/long-duration warp, and our heroes would have hit it in "Elaan of Troyius": sublight there was so slow that it no longer was quicker than warp!)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Only when the ship is deliberately trying to go back in time or happens to be next to a "black star". Time didn't reverse itself in "Operation Annihilate!" :rommie:

    I'm not sure that you could say there was any time dilation involved in "The Paradise Syndrome". They went at high warp 9 for several hours but they weren't 400 light years away but a mere 59 days at impulse power. It has to be several weeks for Kirk as well since I presume it'd take at least one or two missed periods for Miramanee to realize she was pregnant and we also have Kirk's musing about the weeks going by. A high warp 9 with a slowed actual speed would be consistent with other in system operations, IMHO.

    Hehe :)
     
  12. kguru

    kguru Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Voyager was specially designed after the problems with the rift in space was discovered that required the lowered warp speed limit. There was some inconsistency about high warp numbers in the 24th century series as in All Good Things, the Enterprise was going at speeds above warp 10 which seems to be coming off of a different scale than the asymptotic warp 10 scale that Voyager used. It is possible this variation was only in place in that future timeline as a result of Q making a change or it could have been a side affect of the time distortion.
     
  13. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    The warp factor to actual speeds in TNG/Voyager were consistent among themselves (bonus for being from the same production folks.) The AGT speeds could easily have been an alternate universe or some other change that occurred in TNG but never came to pass. We've seen plenty of ships push pass the Warp 5 "limit" after the TNG episode so we can assume that either all warp engines were made safer or that the threat to subspace was only limited to that region or something else entirely which we are not told of :)