Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

[BillJ]

I have to disagree. Riker saw that the second shot he fired sent Yuta reeling. He could have given her a two or three second hit with another one of those...

But we know from The Undiscovered Country that a phaser on stun can kill at close range.

From there, it would be a simple matter to beam her back to a confinement cell to turn her over to the Acamarian authorities.

The how long does she sit in prison? Do we even know if the Acamarians have a death penalty? Riker could've just as easily been sentencing her to death by incapacitating her and handing her over to them.

 

[Mojochi]

The official charge would have to be use of excessive force, or misuse of deadly force. He's a cop in this case, and acting in the defense of someone.

 

[T'Girl]

Look, we all know what murder is.

Murder is killing someone in a illegal mannor. But is what Riker did strictly illegal? I would say no.

Yuta was only four feet from Chorgan when she made her final lunge, from where Riker was standing there was no way he could have moved to physically stopped Yuta. Riker could not have tackled her, restrained her, grapped her. He was too far away.

And she was moving toward Chorgan when she was shot, even if Riker had knocked her unconscious with the last shot, it's possible she still might have fallen on Chorgan, killing him.

Yuta wasn't just stepping towards Chorgan that time, she was basically leaping at him. She only had to touch him.

The only exception I'm aware of is if the perp turns tail and flees. You can't kill them if they do that

Yes of course you can kill them if they're running away. If you're the police (civilian or military), and you confront someone who is believed to be a mass murderer, and they suddenly turn and flee ... hell yes you can in the performance of your duties empty your gun into their back.

What possible reason could you as the police have in deliberately letting them get away?

In the scene in question, Riker was "the cops."

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPFp5tAlIB8[/yt]

 

[Tiberius]

Or maybe a sustained shot on the second setting -would- have killed her in an agonizing fashion and Riker chose a comparatively painless method when she persisted on attacking. Never know.

Speculation. Anyway, she seems to be quite resistant to phaser fire, so I doubt a sustained burst would do any serious permanent damage.

And that's not speculation?

No, it's not.

We see how she reacts to the second shot. She has less of a reaction to it than a regular person being hit with a taser. And I base this on THIS video of a guy getting shot with a taser.

And then, we hear four little beeps as Riker increases power, and we see that the phaser is set to MAXIMUM.

So, Yuta is hit by a phaser shot only four settings below the absolute maximum, and it has less of an impact on her than a taser.

So no, it's not speculation that she's resistant to phaser fire.

 

[Tiberius]

I have to disagree. Riker saw that the second shot he fired sent Yuta reeling. He could have given her a two or three second hit with another one of those...

But we know from The Undiscovered Country that a phaser on stun can kill at close range.

So what? Riker was shooting from several meters away. If the stun setting is lethal at that distance, it's not exactly a stun setting, is it?

From there, it would be a simple matter to beam her back to a confinement cell to turn her over to the Acamarian authorities.

The how long does she sit in prison? Do we even know if the Acamarians have a death penalty? Riker could've just as easily been sentencing her to death by incapacitating her and handing her over to them.

Are you seriously presenting this as an argument to support Riker killing her? Because if he didn't, she might face a long prison sentence? And even if the Acamarians were going to kill her, then it is still in accordance with their legal system. Riker has absolutely no grounds for interfering with the legal process of a civilisation that is not a member of the UFP.

 

[MacLeod]

^ In what way?

Look, we all know what murder is. If Riker had killed Yuta for no reason, or for something trivial, then that would have been murder. But acting in defense of another person (or yourself) is, by definition, not murder. If I kill somebody who's robbing my house or is actively trying to kill me (or somebody else), then that is never murder.

(If they're running away and I shoot them in the back, then THAT is murder, but that's not what Riker was doing.)

I wasn't referring to you specifically, just saying that in response to your comment being one of the people who are defending Riker's decision with only a moment to act. I mentioned earlier at worst this would be manslaughter after all.

A number of other people have been giving their versions of what he should have/could have done in that two second period. Hence the Monday QB comment.

"O'brien... lock on to Yuta and beam her to the.... oh crap, he's dead... well beam her to the brig anyways."

Yes but Riker was able to beam over the ship to stop Yuta, so instead of beaming over they could have beamed Yuta back to the Enterprise then contact Picad et al. to say why.

But it's very easy to say what you could have done after the event.

 

[T'Girl]

they could have beamed Yuta back to the Enterprise

By which time the murder of Chorgan would have already occurred. As it was Riker barely arrived in time, now add the small mount of time it would have taken for the transporter operator to scan for one person in the room (Yuta), lock on, and beam her out.

Chorgan is dead.

When Riker beamed in, Yuta was already walking towards Chorgan with his drink, where are these extra few seconds supposed to have come from?

 

[Jeyl]

Last I checked, women getting the short end of the stick on TNG is common practice. Just a few episodes later, they're going to bring back Tasha Yar only to give her a fate worse than death.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Riker has absolutely no grounds for interfering with the legal process of a civilisation that is not a member of the UFP.

Of course Riker had grounds. Marouk asked for the Federation's help, thus giving them the right to get involved. Plus, the Gatherers had been raiding Federation outposts, and that also gives the Federation the right to intervene.

 

[T'Girl]

Just a few episodes later, they're going to bring back Tasha Yar only to give her a fate worse than death.

Tasha had to submit to repeated sexual assaults in order to secure the lives of the Enterprise Cee's surviving crew, then subsequently give birth to the rapist's child. Her last thought's were that her own daughter betrayed her.

Armus at least killed her quickly.

Riker has absolutely no grounds for interfering with the legal process of a civilisation that is not a member of the UFP.

What "legal process?" He stopped a murder.

.

 

[Jerikka Dawn]

Riker has absolutely no grounds for interfering with the legal process of a civilisation that is not a member of the UFP.

What "legal process?" He stopped a murder.

I believe Tiberius was illustrating that the ramifications of Yuta's arrest should be considered irrelevant to Riker's decision making process. Full quote:

From there, it would be a simple matter to beam her back to a confinement cell to turn her over to the Acamarian authorities.

The how long does she sit in prison? Do we even know if the Acamarians have a death penalty? Riker could've just as easily been sentencing her to death by incapacitating her and handing her over to them.

Are you seriously presenting this as an argument to support Riker killing her? Because if he didn't, she might face a long prison sentence? And even if the Acamarians were going to kill her, then it is still in accordance with their legal system. Riker has absolutely no grounds for interfering with the legal process of a civilisation that is not a member of the UFP.

 

[Tiberius]

Riker has absolutely no grounds for interfering with the legal process of a civilisation that is not a member of the UFP.

Of course Riker had grounds. Marouk asked for the Federation's help, thus giving them the right to get involved. Plus, the Gatherers had been raiding Federation outposts, and that also gives the Federation the right to intervene.

No it doesn't. The fact that Marouk asked for help to fix one particular problem does not give Riker the right to start interfering in a completely separate problem.

Riker has absolutely no grounds for interfering with the legal process of a civilisation that is not a member of the UFP.

What "legal process?" He stopped a murder.

.

With a summary execution. He could have stopped her any number of other ways. And the legal process he interfered with is making sure that Yuta is dealt with according to Acamarian laws. Unless those laws include executing criminals by a bunch of visiting aliens who happen to stumble into the problem, he interfered.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I was more disturbed by Beverly in "Genesis," who was responsible for the deaths of I can't remember how many crew members (at least one), and had a good chuckle about the whole thing at the end of the episode.

 

[Tiberius]

Ah, but that wasn't intentional...