Walter Koenig on Shat's Raw Nerve

[DestinyCaptain]

"My dear Doctor, they're all true." "Even the lies?" "Especially the lies."

This pretty much sums it up for me. There is truth there somewhere, as is some degree of add on. Was Shat self absorbed? Probably. He's basically a running one man business. That business was Shatner. It's all about doing everything that assures the brand is relevant, because that is how it gets money. All movie and tv actors are in this business. This is exactly why he has had so much success in the business despite the stigma of Trek. It is this same drive that ultimately comes through in the portrayal of Kirk. It is arguably one of the reasons the program was what it became. It could also be argued that were he not so driven and made the choices that he did, there would never have been a life beyond the initial run. The conventions and movies and everything else have generated money for everyone involved, some more than others. Would any of these actors have appeared on anything more than an episode of the Love Boat or other run of the mill 70's and 80's fair? Would they have appeared in six mainstream box office films? Would they have earned the paychecks that they did from those films? Would they have been as relevant?

He probably was an ass at times. He probably didn't see the rest of the group the same way they did. Haven't we all worked with managers and supervisors that were difficult to deal with, but were also very successful for themselves and the company that they work for? It's still better to be working for a successful company or business than it is to be in one that is struggling because of the boss.

 

[Captain Robert April]

All the others saw was that he didn't stick around to hang out.

What they didn't see was the discussions he had with Roddenberry, Justman, Coon, et al, about trying to make the show better, pitching his own story ideas, along with having to deal with a disintegrating marriage with three little girls in the mix, along with any other business he had going on the side.

What they saw as an out of control ego was more workaholic and trying to make sure this space opera he signed on to followed through on its promise to be a show for grownups.

 

[Merky]

I believe Shatner has an ego that could rival the size of this known galaxy. Everyone on the cast, at some point (including Nimoy) have admitted that while working on the show Shatner made sure to protect his character's interest as well as his as the leading actor. If that meant cutting lines, rewriting other characters, or making sure Spock played second fiddle to Kirk - then that is what Shatner did.

His own inflamed ego and perception of everyone on the cast is pretty much personified in Star Trek V. He is the hero, the lead, the action star and everyone else is there for the ride. It is Kirk/Shatner that saves the day. Shatner, during that time, was only in it for himself - even if he was, by that time, BFFs with Nimoy.

I would not say it to be hypocritical for the cast to speak out on Shatner. There's the time and place where you're working professionally with someone and then the moment where you're off the clock and let loose. Do I think that the cast hates Shatner? From what I scene on behind the scenes footage and press events, etc it looks like they all enjoy each other well enough to still have a laugh with each other at the end of the day. I believe there's some resentment for the things that he has done business wise but I think they enjoy him as a person.

Do I think that sometimes its exaggerated? Probably. When you're at conventions, you are riding off of the energy of the audience. So the more energetic the audience is, the more you feed them. You can't let your audience fall asleep on that one story where Shatner towed Nimoy's car on the set even if you told it over 1,000 times.

My biggest "wtf" about Shatner and his relationship with his cast mates is how he and Nimoy became such BFFs. The one cast member who he competed with on the show, professionally, ends up being one of his closest life time friends. Nimoy called it sibling rivalry... but... I just find it interesting....

 

[Brian]

Nick Meyer had an interesting view of it in his "View From the Bridge" book.

So interesting, in fact, that I can't remember exactly how it went, lol. And google is not helping me find a quote.

As I fuzzily recall, I think he said that Shatner has no ego, but he has vanity. Huge vanity. Which he also sort of gave him a pass on because that comes with being a leading man. Like he didn't do what he did because he was stuck on himself and didn't give a rat's ass about others, he did it in the interest of being presented in the best possible light. Which really should be the responsibility of each and every one of them regarding their own characters, not his.

My biggest "wtf" about Shatner and his relationship with his cast mates is how he and Nimoy became such BFFs. The one cast member who he competed with on the show, professionally, ends up being one of his closest life time friends. Nimoy called it sibling rivalry... but... I just find it interesting....

They eventually had that infamous favored nations clause in their contracts, where what was good for one was good for the other. Such a mutually beneficial arrangement I'm sure must go a long way toward mending old wounds.

 

[Merky]

Meyer makes quite a few comments on the Trek II and VI DVDs about having to tone Shatner down in order to get that "performance" out of him by making him do a scene several times. lol Meyer is like the only guy I know that actually talks about Shatner as if he's directing a kid or something.

 

[Brian]

Yeah, that's in the book, too. He told a story abuot the "Here it comes" line in TWOK, that Shatner chewed the words out so venomously that he telegraphed that they were about to stick it to Khan. Nick knew that Khan was so smart, he would see right through it. So he had to shoot it so many times that Shatner got tired enough to deliver the line almost innocently, the way it wound up in the film.

Interestingly, the opposite was true of DeForest Kelley. He always gave his best delivery first, and got worse as he tired. Which, as you can imagine, made for some interesting tries at getting good scenes between the two of them shot.

 

[Merky]

Now I'm really interested in getting that book just to read about them from a director's standpoint.

 

[jayrath]

Yeah, that's in the book, too. He told a story abuot the "Here it comes" line in TWOK, that Shatner chewed the words out so venomously that he telegraphed that they were about to stick it to Khan. Nick knew that Khan was so smart, he would see right through it. So he had to shoot it so many times that Shatner got tired enough to deliver the line almost innocently, the way it wound up in the film.

Interestingly, the opposite was true of DeForest Kelley. He always gave his best delivery first, and got worse as he tired. Which, as you can imagine, made for some interesting tries at getting good scenes between the two of them shot.

This was also a comment of Frank Capra, director of "It's a Wonderful Life" and many other films, regarding his own cast members. Some performers do their best takes right away, others need to do it again and again, 'til the director gets what she or he wants. There's no shame in that.

I'd also like to note that the infamous "KHAAAN!" shout must have pleased Meyer, on set and in editing, or else it would have been taken out or reshot before even leaving the set. Films are a collaborative medium. Yes, it's over the top -- and I blame Meyer, not Shatner, for putting it in the film.

 

[Brian]

Blame?

I think that's an awesome moment.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

it's the echo that makes it work for me

 

[CaptainStoner]

So Raw Nerve is still in production? I thought he was done with it already. It's an excellent show I wish wasn't on such an obscure channel.

I can't help but feel the actors should have been more proactive way back when, much like Shatner was, rather than falling into griping behind the scenes or whatever. And that's where a lot of the frustration lies. Why didn't Takei or others go up to the director more when they were there, and honestly debate line changes without assuming Bill is trying to snub their careers? Or why didn't they talk to him?

 

[Merky]

Why didn't Takei or others go up to the director more when they were there, and honestly debate line changes without assuming Bill is trying to snub their careers? Or why didn't they talk to him?

That's kind of hard when you're not getting enough respect as it is being a minority in Hollywood... or when a $5 haircut causes a memo war or a simple request puts you on suspension.

Shatner had leverage because he was the star. Everyone else was replaceable and I'm pretty sure the producers were not shy in reminding them that fact.

 

[Maurice]

And I suspect the supporting cast knew they were the supporting cast back then. It as the later fan adulation that likely made them think otherwise.

 

[Merky]

And I suspect the supporting cast knew they were the supporting cast back then. It as the later fan adulation that likely made them think otherwise.

I doubt that all of the cast members' frustration with Shatner stemmed from fan adulation. Maybe forced into the open, perhaps stretched, but I believe it was always there.

Even in that free talk Shatner did with Nimoy called Mind Meld, he pretty much was " I was the lead star IDEGI ". He's pretty much cemented in his reasoning that Star Trek was his show, they were along for the ride, and he doesn't understand why they don't get that. I think that attitude perpetrated why they were frustrated with him professionally. Collectively they all brought ST, it wasn't a one man show.

He's appearing a convention in my state this weekend. I've been teeter-tottering on going just because of my love/hate for him ahaha. I might go... just to see if he even bothers to tackle that issue.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Even in that free talk Shatner did with Nimoy called Mind Meld, he pretty much was " I was the lead star IDEGI ". He's pretty much cemented in his reasoning that Star Trek was his show, they were along for the ride, and he doesn't understand why they don't get that.

I don't get why they don't get that either. It was the truth. Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley were the only regulars. They were under contract for the whole of each season. Doohan, Koenig, Nichols and Takei were freakin' day players. They were hired on an episode by episode basis. Paramount was under no commitment to them, nor they to it. Succinctly put Shatner was the star and they were at best glorified guest actors. Personally if I were Shatner I wouldn't give those prima donna crybabies the time of day after all the crap those ingrates have slung at him time and again.

 

[Merky]

I wasn't there, I was born 21 years after the fact, but from what I've heard the only thing I can really say is that there's a thing called respect at the work place. It's fine Shatner wanted to protect his character and his own self interest on the show, but don't shit on everyone else to do it. Their contribution is as valuable as Shatner's own.

As for what they've said at conventions, I don't know... I don't go to Trek conventions. Unless its on tape, who knows how mean and exaggerated the comments are. Who knows if they are joking, blah blah blah. As for the books, I've only read excerpts from Nichelle's and Deforest's respectively and completed Nimoy's I Am Spock. I can only speak on what I've witnessed. I can't say that they're ingrates... but judging from 60s America, I can see some bullshit politics playing in the background for Nichols and Takei. Nimoy has admitted there was competition that sometimes had to be settled by Roddenberry and parts to his character he had to defend from Shatner, but apparently they're now BFFs for life. Who really knows what the real deal is.

Like I said, maybe Shatner was a dick to work with professionally but was the coolest funniest guy to have beers with after work.

 

[beamMe]

Even in that free talk Shatner did with Nimoy called Mind Meld, he pretty much was " I was the lead star IDEGI ". He's pretty much cemented in his reasoning that Star Trek was his show, they were along for the ride, and he doesn't understand why they don't get that.

You forgot to mention that Nimoy agrees with him.

 

[Merky]

Even in that free talk Shatner did with Nimoy called Mind Meld, he pretty much was " I was the lead star IDEGI ". He's pretty much cemented in his reasoning that Star Trek was his show, they were along for the ride, and he doesn't understand why they don't get that.

You forgot to mention that Nimoy agrees with him.

He does, or at least understood where he was coming from. Then again it was "their" show.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Another facet to keep in mind is that for the vast majority of the episodes, Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley were in the majority of the scenes, which means they were there for the entire time an episode was being produced (six or seven 12-hour days), while the others would often times only be there for scenes on the bridge, meaning they would be there for ONE FREAKIN' DAY! Like Shatner said in a Starlog interview, "they were barely there."

Think back to how many times someone other than Sulu, Chekov, and Uhura were manning the helm, navigation, or communications. Did it make any difference to the story? There are even a few times where Scotty is referred to, but he's nowhere in the episode.

 

[Brian]

the others would often times only be there for scenes on the bridge, meaning they would be there for ONE FREAKIN' DAY! Like Shatner said in a Starlog interview, "they were barely there."

Which should have made it obvious to him when he would take a line from them and it turn out to be their only line in that episode, thereby deleting their job for the week.