"Vulcans have no emotions"

[FordSVT]

This came up in another thread related to computer and alien intelligence and how pure logic would leave a truly intelligent being without free will. Essentially that emotion of some kind is a prerequisite for sentient intelligence.

I don't like it when "Vulcans have no emotions" is said as a statement of fact. They've said so in every series, Spock has said it, Tuvok has said it. The stories themselves, the character's behaviour and other dialogue says that they do have emotions, very powerful ones in fact, and that they simply suppress them and do their best not to let what does creep through influence their actions negatively. Their Romulan cousins are very emotional: as arrogant as a Cardassian, at times as violent as any Klingon.

When Vulcans say they have no emotions to members of other species, there is a large degree of irony there because they are saying so out of pride. They often use logic as an excuse for emotional decisions. It always bugged me when people criticized the writers of Enterprise for making some of them so deceitful and emotional, when in fact that was a precedent set during TOS and reinforced time and again through each series.

 

[xortex]

I like to think Vulcans were incapable of lying because it was outlawed. I could be wrong about this, but I wish they had stuck to their guns and really made Vulcans emotionless Like mythologically 'different' beings entirely like aliens should be. Or their emotions are detached.

 

[The Wormhole]

It always bugged me when people criticized the writers of Enterprise for making some of them so deceitful and emotional, when in fact that was a precedent set during TOS and reinforced time and again through each series.

Except the one on Enterprise were diffrerent from the ones seen in the other series. That's why season 4 had the story of the Vulcan Civil War, to explain the difference and to set the Vulcans back on the original path.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Vulcans do have emotions. It's obvious. We've all seen it. It's just that theirs are controlled and kept hidden. When a Vulcan says they have no emotions, they are either 1) a Kolinahr adept, or 2) lying. (And don't tell me Vulcans don't lie either. Every sentient being lies.)

There are Vulcans who overcompensate. They try to be "more Vulcan" than any other. Just because one particular Vulcan might say they are emotionless (they might even believe it) doesn't mean all Vulcans are.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Of course they have emotions. It's the premise of their philosophy: why bothering with all the meditation and discipline if they would not have them in the first place? When they say "Vulcans have no emotions", they are obviously lying (exaggerating would be their preferred way of saying that, of course), but the interesting fact is that we know they are lying, and they know we know they are lying, but they keep repeating the lie because it's so important for them to keep it up even in the face on overwhelming evidences of the contrary. And paradoxes make for very interesting storytelling.

And I actually loved the way they were treated in ENT: people often forget that during TOS Vulcans were always portrayed as sneaky bastards.

 

[Timo]

They've said so in every series, Spock has said it, Tuvok has said it.

Umm, where?

Spock has admitted to being a "cold-blooded monstrosity" or the like often enough, or accused others of being excessively emotional, but when has he said he doesn't have emotions? Tuvok didn't even bother to accuse his hot-blooded companions of their excesses, much less claim he was personally free of emotional burdens. Quite to the contrary, both characters had entire episodes devoted to their internally raging emotions!

And don't tell me Vulcans don't lie either.

I don't. Nor do the Vulcans...

From "The Enterprise Incident":

Romulan Commander: " There's a well-known saying, or is it a myth, that Vulcans are incapable of lying?"
Spock: "It is no myth."

Dodge City. Spock is probably being truthful there: it's not a myth - it's just a blatant lie!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[FordSVT]

I think my point is against people in real life and characters who actually seem to take the words literally, maybe I should have explained it better. I realise that even within the context of the show the Vulcans and other characters "get it".

 

[Amaris]

I realize it's not canon, but Diane Duane's "Spock's World" explains all of this exceedingly well.

 

[SFRabid]

The first time I watched that episode I didn't catch that Spock was actually misleading the Romulans. That and what Enterprise did with Vulcans made them much more interesting. Watching the first two seasons of TOS you can see that Vulcans are very arrogant. Watching Enterprise you see that arrogance creates a lot of tension and anger with humans of that time. In both series Vulcans are constantly criticizing humans for emotions, but really they are critisicing themselves for their own hidden emotions.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Vulcans don't lie...but they sure as hell can exaggerate, and that best sums up the "no emotions" bit as far as I'm concerned.

Vulcan emotions are apparently far more intense (and self-destructive) than Human emotions, so the need to suppress them was necessary for their very survival during the time of Surak, IMO. The early Vulcans who left for Romulus, on the other hand, likely redirected their energies through military conquest of others or perhaps adopted a totalitarian society to maintain control, dunno...

 

[T'Girl]

you can see that Vulcans are very arrogant

"Vulcan don't possess emotions" is like a philosophical slogan with them. It's like the Klingons and their "We have honor!" self-label. T'Pring defanatly had something for Stonn that went beyond logic. Sarek blatantly loved Amanda (probably what T'Pring and Stonn actual had). The Vulcans once fully gave in to their emotions in ancient times and it came close to destroying them. So now the Vukcan race is like a collective group of recovering alcoholics, step seven is lying to yourself (and others) that you have no emotions.

I think Vulcan get some kind of visceral thrill from putting the "lesser races" in they places, it's an instinctual reaction of excitement that comes from demonstrating their perceived superiority over others, Spock observation of the non-effect of tribble purring on his nervous system is a minor example of this behavior. Don't get me wrong, in many ways the Vulcans are superior, but it isn't across the board.

The nonemotinal Vulcans down inside enjoy being assholes.

 

[scotpens]

. . .I think Vulcan get some kind of visceral thrill from putting the "lesser races" in they places, it's an instinctual reaction of excitement that comes from demonstrating their perceived superiority over others . . .

But, of course, the Vulcans would never admit to feeling "excitement" or a "visceral thrill." They would simply say they're aware of the unquestionable superiority of logic over emotion.

In The World of Star Trek, David Gerrold commented on the McCoy-Spock relationship, saying that McCoy regards Spock as something of a neurotic -- the annoying kind who considers his neurosis a strength and boasts about it.

The nonemotional Vulcans down inside enjoy being assholes.

That's the Vulcans in a nutshell!

 

[THE_FETT]

This came up in another thread related to computer and alien intelligence and how pure logic would leave a truly intelligent being without free will. Essentially that emotion of some kind is a prerequisite for sentient intelligence.

How are you arriving at these conclusions?

 

[Deks]

Well, 7 of 9 asked Tuvok if Vulcans are incapable of lying.

Here's how the conversation went (from Hunters episode transcript):

SEVEN: Commander, am I correct in assuming that Vulcans are incapable of lying?
TUVOK: We are capable of telling lies. However, I have never found it prudent or necessary to do so.
SEVEN: You have never lied?
TUVOK: Only under orders from a superior officer.

So, I would say that generally speaking, Vulcans do not lie, unless they find it is absolutely necessary or are ordered.
I wouldn't say they are using lies as often as say other species would.

To my recollection of what was said about Vulcans, their emotional control and how everything was portrayed, they do experience emotions, however they are not affected by them in any visible capacity.
They deal with them behind powerful mental control and remain calm in some of the most difficult situations.

 

[Cheapjack]

I'm half-Vulcan, and I very rarely show emotions.

I am a logical being.

And, I must mind-meld with V'ger.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

This came up in another thread related to computer and alien intelligence and how pure logic would leave a truly intelligent being without free will. Essentially that emotion of some kind is a prerequisite for sentient intelligence.

How are you arriving at these conclusions?

http://trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=4029123&postcount=27

 

[indolover]

they have emotions, but they suppress them to the extent that they're not consciously aware of them.

As for Vulcans lacking free will, then what defines free will? Vulcans make choices, don't they?

 

[Cheapjack]

The paradox with Vulcans, is that humans that repress their emotions end up being less dynamic and make themselves sick, but Vulcans are capable of as much dynamism as humans and can be quite emotional.

 

[T'Girl]

This came up in another thread related to computer and alien intelligence and how pure logic would leave a truly intelligent being without free will. Essentially that emotion of some kind is a prerequisite for sentient intelligence.

How are you arriving at these conclusions?

I didn't read the entire thread he is referring too, however this has come up before. I think what he is talking about is the idea that in any given situation there is only a single logically solution, a being of pure logic would have their actions dictated by logic, not choice. Spock is obviously not a being of pure logic, his actions in The Galileo Seven and especially The Paradise Syndrome clearly shows this.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

This came up in another thread related to computer and alien intelligence and how pure logic would leave a truly intelligent being without free will. Essentially that emotion of some kind is a prerequisite for sentient intelligence.

How are you arriving at these conclusions?

I didn't read the entire thread he is referring too, however this has come up before. I think what he is talking about is the idea that in any given situation there is only a single logically solution, a being of pure logic would have their actions dictated by logic, not choice. Spock is obviously not a being of pure logic, his actions in The Galileo Seven and especially The Paradise Syndrome clearly shows this.

In any given situation, a being guided by pure logic would have no purpose to logically work toward.

Let's take a look at humans - what are our motivations?:
Ambition, greed, love, hate, fear, morality, etc - they are defining our purposes (and none can be logically derived).
Self-preservation, hunger, etc - these are emotions, 'purposes' hard-wired into our mind (and again, under no circumstances can one derive them logically without appealing to another emotion).

A being without emotions will have no motivation whatsoever, either, will be catatonic.