Vulcans and Romulans

[CuttingEdge100]

Okay, here's something I never quite got.

The Vulcans and the Romulans are the same race, somewhere along the way, the Vulcans embraced logic and became mellow and logical and stuff and the Romulans remained highly emotional. Now the Romulans leave Vulcan and head really far out into deep-space.

Now, how the hell did the Romulans get as far out as they did without warp-drive?

 

[PsychoPere]

The dissident Vulcans likely settled on a series of planets, temporarily or permanently, on the way to the worlds that would ultimately become known as Romulus and Remus. A number of worlds with ancient Romulan artifacts was mentioned in TNG's "The Gambit" two-parter. The episode also referenced the existence of a Romulan off-shoot, since extinct, known as the Debrune. I also don't think that we know for certain the Vulcans didn't have warp drive at the Time of Awakening.

 

[CylonHybrid]

How do you know they didn't have warp drive? They were one of the first races to have a warp drive in the alpha quadrant.

 

[Skellington]

Q did it.

Alternatively, they had warp drive several thousand years ago and their technology developed really slowly; as did the Vulcans'.

 

[CylonHybrid]

Q did it.

Alternatively, they had warp drive several thousand years ago and their technology developed really slowly; as did the Vulcans'.

I remember someone mentioning I think it was spock in the next generation episode or posibly an enterprise episode with some other vulcan mentioning it that the Romulans left Vulcan about 2,000 years ago.

 

[Anwar]

Enterprise established that the Vulcans had FTL ability at least 3,000 years ago. If the separation happened 2000 years ago they could easily have just used the warp ships they had then (or whatever kind of FTL they used).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Generation ships.

 

[T'Girl]

how the hell did the Romulans get as far out as they did ...

While BoT strongly suggests that the RNZ is a far off location relative to Earth, TNG contradicts this during Unification part two which make a different suggestion that the RNZ and the Vulcan home world aren't widely separated.

The series Enterprise also seem to indicate that Earth, Vulcan, Andor, etc. and the Romulans were relatively close.

It's always made sense to me that where the "front" was located at the time the armistice treaty was sign at the end of the Romulan war, and the location of the RNZ in subsequent centuries would be the same place in space. The boarder (NZ) between the combatants was where the fighting stopped.

Earth in the time period prior to the war possessed warp five ships (and few of them) how far from Earth could Humans reasonable have gotten during the course of the war?

.

 

[BillJ]

Enterprise established that the Vulcans had FTL ability at least 3,000 years ago. If the separation happened 2000 years ago they could easily have just used the warp ships they had then (or whatever kind of FTL they used).

When did Enterprise establish that?

 

[Anwar]

In the first episode with the Andorians, they said that the Monastery on P'Jem had been built 3,000 years ago. Since P'Jem is clearly not close enough to Vulcan to get there by regular spaceflight they had to have had some form of FTL back then.

 

[BillJ]

In the first episode with the Andorians, they said that the Monastery on P'Jem had been built 3,000 years ago. Since P'Jem is clearly not close enough to Vulcan to get there by regular spaceflight they had to have had some form of FTL back then.

Or generation ships?

 

[C.E. Evans]

In the first episode with the Andorians, they said that the Monastery on P'Jem had been built 3,000 years ago. Since P'Jem is clearly not close enough to Vulcan to get there by regular spaceflight they had to have had some form of FTL back then.

This.

The Vulcans probably had warp drive--or some early FTL equivalent--thousands of years ago, but they were in no hurry to run out and explore everything like Humans, IMO. They took their sweet (but logical) time about it, taking millennia to do what Humans could do in a century.

No wonder why Humans frightened Vulcans in ENT...

 

[BillJ]

They took their sweet (but logical) time about it, taking millennia to do what Humans could do in a century.

No wonder why Humans frightened Vulcans in ENT...

But you assigning a cultural trait (logic) to the Vulcans' about a thousand years to soon...

 

[kkozoriz1]

The ancient Vulcans may have been cautious for reasons other than logic. If you were in a cold war with another faction or factions, you may have taken time to entrench and defend the habitable planets you settled rather than grabbing as many as you could only to have them conquered or destroyed.

 

[Anwar]

Or, their warp tech back then wasn't so good (maybe only warp one) and the wars kept destroying infrastructure and technology. The final war before Surak may have done so much damage to those who remained (while the Romulans fled on the remaining warp ships) that it just took them some time to re-invent warp technology.

 

[BillJ]

The ancient Vulcans may have been cautious for reasons other than logic. If you were in a cold war with another faction or factions, you may have taken time to entrench and defend the habitable planets you settled rather than grabbing as many as you could only to have them conquered or destroyed.

If you buy that the Vulcans had warp drive three thousand years ago, you're talking about a violent culture that made no conquests for a thousand years.

SPOCK: It is for them, Doctor. Vulcan, like Earth, had its aggressive colonizing period. Savage, even by Earth standards. And if Romulans retain this martial philosophy, then weakness is something we dare not show.

Now... if they had warp drive, that aggressive, colonizing period would have probably happened off-world. We have the Kronos, Andor, Tellar and Earth all within an arms reach of Vulcan at warp velocities. And not a sign that Vulcan had tried to conquer any of them.

Plus... in three thousand plus years all they've achieved is Warp Seven? Then we take into account that it looks like Vulcan fought its' war (as seen in Enterprise) with simple nuclear weapons instead of something more devastating.

I'm on the side that Vulcan probably didn't have warp capabilities until a century or two prior to humanity.

 

[C.E. Evans]

They took their sweet (but logical) time about it, taking millennia to do what Humans could do in a century.

No wonder why Humans frightened Vulcans in ENT...

But you assigning a cultural trait (logic) to the Vulcans' about a thousand years to soon...

Nope. It's been long established that Vulcans do feel emotions--perhaps even more intensely than Humans do. What Vulcans presumably learned from Surak was how to control those emotions rather than have those emotions control them. Only those Vulcans who have mastered the Kolinahr can be said to be truly 100% without emotions, IMO, and those appear to be few and far between.

 

[BillJ]

They took their sweet (but logical) time about it, taking millennia to do what Humans could do in a century.

No wonder why Humans frightened Vulcans in ENT...

But you assigning a cultural trait (logic) to the Vulcans' about a thousand years to soon...

Nope. It's been long established that Vulcans do feel emotions--perhaps even more intensely than Humans do. What Vulcans presumably learned from Surak was how to control those emotions rather than have those emotions control them. Only those Vulcans who have mastered the Kolinahr can be said to be truly 100% without emotions, IMO, and those appear to be few and far between.

Huh?

I don't think you understand the point I was trying to make. Prior to their society embracing logic, two-thousand years ago, they were a violent, savage race. Prior to the Vulcan reformation the only thing they were using logic for was deciding who would be the best target (if they had warp drive).

 

[C.E. Evans]

But you assigning a cultural trait (logic) to the Vulcans' about a thousand years to soon...

Nope. It's been long established that Vulcans do feel emotions--perhaps even more intensely than Humans do. What Vulcans presumably learned from Surak was how to control those emotions rather than have those emotions control them. Only those Vulcans who have mastered the Kolinahr can be said to be truly 100% without emotions, IMO, and those appear to be few and far between.

Huh?

I don't think you understand the point I was trying to make. Prior to their society embracing logic, two-thousand years ago, they were a violent, savage race. Prior to the Vulcan reformation the only thing they were using logic for was deciding who would be the best target (if they had warp drive).

That was during or before the time of Surak, I was talking about during the 22nd-Century.

 

[Anwar]

If you buy that the Vulcans had warp drive three thousand years ago, you're talking about a violent culture that made no conquests for a thousand years.

The Vulcans weren't a unified species at the time, they probably spent most of their time killing each other and conquering one another rather than spend time on primitive species that weren't in space themselves.

Plus... in three thousand plus years all they've achieved is Warp Seven? Then we take into account that it looks like Vulcan fought its' war (as seen in Enterprise) with simple nuclear weapons instead of something more devastating.

If the wars were so destructive the Vulcans had to start over, then it's no so unbelievable.