Vulcans and Marraiges
- Thread starter xavier
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He was one of those administering the simulator test to Kirk at the academy. That says faculty.
Or just observing, because it was his latest version of the test. Kirk and McCoy didn't know who he was.He was one of those administering the simulator test to Kirk at the academy. That says faculty.
whoa, T'Girl, how problematic and misogynistic your comment is between 1 and 10?
calling their relationship just 'a sexual affair' is crass and stupid, tbh, it seems like you're just projecting and pretending that Spock isn't a willing participant in the relationship (I dunno but she wasn't the one who put his hand on her booty on that transport pad, just sayin').
"This was the gutsiest thing that we did. Blowing up Vulcan was nothing compared to saying: ‘Spock and Uhura are in love with each other and having this incredibly intimate relationship’.." -- JJ Abrams, star trek 2009 commentary
judging from some posters here, he was being very accurate!
still, I don't see where it was ever implied or stated that their relationship is only 'sexual' or she was sleeping with him for better grades (which is hilarious itself as a criticism as not only you're talking about a freaking vulcan but Uhura has a hell of a curriculum and she is like the one crew member who got her place on the bridge as chief communications officer because she was more skilled than the previous officer and not because said previous officer died or was sick or Pike decided to make an insubordinate cadet the first officer even though he had cheated on an academy test and wasn't supposed to be on any ship in that moment...)
Not to mention that the official site of the first movie and the comics have already debunked the 'theory' that he started dating her when she was still one of his students (and if that was the case, you should blame him not just her. He was the one in a position of power not her) . They did in fact start dating when she no longer was a student and just was his teaching assistant. Nothing about their relationship was against the rules.
ps: try dating a vulcan or Spock and then come back here to define 'high maintenance girlfriend' lmao
(wouldn't your standards make Kirk a high maintenance friend, then?)
calling their relationship just 'a sexual affair' is crass and stupid, tbh, it seems like you're just projecting and pretending that Spock isn't a willing participant in the relationship (I dunno but she wasn't the one who put his hand on her booty on that transport pad, just sayin').
"This was the gutsiest thing that we did. Blowing up Vulcan was nothing compared to saying: ‘Spock and Uhura are in love with each other and having this incredibly intimate relationship’.." -- JJ Abrams, star trek 2009 commentary
judging from some posters here, he was being very accurate!
still, I don't see where it was ever implied or stated that their relationship is only 'sexual' or she was sleeping with him for better grades (which is hilarious itself as a criticism as not only you're talking about a freaking vulcan but Uhura has a hell of a curriculum and she is like the one crew member who got her place on the bridge as chief communications officer because she was more skilled than the previous officer and not because said previous officer died or was sick or Pike decided to make an insubordinate cadet the first officer even though he had cheated on an academy test and wasn't supposed to be on any ship in that moment...)
Not to mention that the official site of the first movie and the comics have already debunked the 'theory' that he started dating her when she was still one of his students (and if that was the case, you should blame him not just her. He was the one in a position of power not her) . They did in fact start dating when she no longer was a student and just was his teaching assistant. Nothing about their relationship was against the rules.
ps: try dating a vulcan or Spock and then come back here to define 'high maintenance girlfriend' lmao
(wouldn't your standards make Kirk a high maintenance friend, then?)
I think it's stretching things JUST a tad to ascribe any kind of racial element to objections against their relationship.
A big piece of the criticism against nuUhura in the penultimate movie was that she was engage in a affair with Spock while she was his student, the assumption being she was screwing him for grades and favoritism.
When she wasn't assigned to the ship she preferred, she when to her lover for reassignment, instead of going to the first officer of the ship she had been assigned to, who she probably wasn't sleeping with.
When she felt that Spock needed some "huggy time," Uhura simply walked away from her post on the bridge and took a lift ride with her lover.
No.
In the last movie, after Spock risked his life to save thousand of lives, Uhura bitched him out for not first thinking about HER and his relationship with HER, while Spock's commanding officer was seated only a few feet away.
High maintenance describes the character perfectly.
If it was Spock's intent to pursue a sexual affair with Uhura, how would telling her about his arranged marriage assist in accomplishing that goal? Telling her wouldn't be logical at all.
when girls calls other girls nagging. it always boils down to one thing. she is dating the guy they like and they feel she is all wrong for him. To hell if , he is real or fictional.
the fact that you even described her as just a high maintenance girlfriend shows your complete ignorance. I bet to differ.
Actually there was no to little criticism. certainly not by professional critics or fans, most fans and critics praised the romance in the first film. when you say critics are you talking of film audience and film critics or (cough cough) K/S fans who monitor all of kirk and spock's sexual encounters with women. I am trying not to laugh.
I have heard this talk before. Do you really have a problem with uhura because of professionalism or do you have a problem with uhura because she is getting in the way of your K/S slash shipping? Like I said it is kind of generic the way most K/S female fans attack uhura. sometimes they lack logic as their reason is filled with plot holes and hypocrisy and sometimes makes no sense at all.
Spock was the first officer, so she went to the right person and you also forgot to mention that when she went to spock. she stated all her academic achievements, she did not mention she was his lover, not once. she stated her academic achievements on why she belonged on the flag ship. This is why I said, you make a lot of plot holes and even no sense at all when you talk as you failed to mention the full conversation of her ship posting.
See that is the thing we haters, they do not even get the full story right. they just talk like half baked cookies and make the audience laugh at them for their ignorance and not with them.
huggy time?
truly wtf?So er em when a loved one of yours looses their mum and 6 billion of his own people his kins, I had no idea to privately hug and comfort the loved one in the midst of such sudden chaos was a bad thing.
Seriously , Am I suppose to take you seriously. Your comments makes no sound logic at all. I am embarrassed on your behalf. it is as if you did not watch to understand the film at all and even the characters. Your comments are shocking. it has so much ignorance on even basic human behavior like a hug or a kiss
Could care more or less of romance but the thing is, it takes two to tango. Spock and uhura are as guilty of screwing eachohter. To blame the girl only especially when you yourself are a girl shows some kind of low class fantasy and inconsistency on your part. faux fake feminism 101 is what I call it.
In your eyes is all the woman's (uhura) fault. the man (cough cough) who you like is so blameless and a victim. Sorry but spock is as guilty. he chose to equally screw her and to get into the argument with her. So you can not bash her and not bash spock as well. it shows why her bashing is just generic and childish on your part.
Uhura bitches to spock for not thinking about her, kirk bitches to spock for being a bad friend in front of captain pike, Bones bitches to Spock for being robotic , when both are all in professional mode as well but kirk and bones are some how spotless in your eyes
and uhura is thrown under the bus. really?Technically Kirk and Spock have been the most unprofessional characters in both films. Spock perhaps the worst when he threw Kirk off the ship in the first film.
So where is your holy outrage on behalf of professionalism
Some female fans make me laugh, they way they throw the female characters like Uhura (who to me is a flawed, lovely 3 dimensional good female lead, especially one of color) under the bus and find the male characters all so spotless and blameless when the male characters are technically worse is just laughable and extremely shallow. No artistic merit at all.
Your not going to stop bashing uhura because to you she is replacing kirk in the romance. Its truly kind of pathetic and quite embarrassing. thankfully you are only in a small minority of the uhura hate.
Most and I mean the majority of trek fans here appreciate the character of Uhura as a leading female and are fine with her romance with Spock despite her poorly it was written in the second film but then again I find the whole film poorly written,the romance was collateral damage.
Overall I find your illogical bashing and hatred of Uhura highly ignorant and even offensive.
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You may find them ignorant, you may even find them offensive, but neither may be taken as an excuse for personal attacks. Please exercise more care in this regard when making future replies to arguments with which you may disagree - address the post, not the poster.
The problem I have with Uhura is that she's getting in the way of Kirk-Spock-McCoy.
It doesn't actually have to get in the way but I think the writers perhaps aren't good enough/don't think its important enough to include both.
I just don't want the next Star Trek movie to be a romantic Comedy featuring Kirk/Carol and Spock/Uhura.
And I don't think Uhura's character gets any favours with her bitching about Spock with Kirk in STID. I don't see what Spock did wrong in the volcano. He's a Starfleet Officer. He's going to have to risk his life sometimes. If Uhura can't take it perhaps she needs to get a different boyfriend with a safer job. One in Maintenance perhaps.
I like it that Spock didn't object to Uhura going on the mission to the Klingon planet in STID. I hope she does the same for him in the next movie. Its OK for her to worry of course but the complaints seem way OTT. I know she has deeper more legitimate concerns from the comic series but STID didn't show these so I can only think from the movie only that Uhura is being unreasonable and controlling.
I still like how brave and outspoken the Uhura character is but I think she needs to be more supportive of Spock or something. And I think Spock and Kirk and Bones can still be a great team even if one or more of them has a girlfriend. I would be happier if Spock or Kirk and Uhura had more professional interactions so you could admire Uhura as an important part of the crew instead of mostly a girlfriend.
It doesn't actually have to get in the way but I think the writers perhaps aren't good enough/don't think its important enough to include both.
I just don't want the next Star Trek movie to be a romantic Comedy featuring Kirk/Carol and Spock/Uhura.
And I don't think Uhura's character gets any favours with her bitching about Spock with Kirk in STID. I don't see what Spock did wrong in the volcano. He's a Starfleet Officer. He's going to have to risk his life sometimes. If Uhura can't take it perhaps she needs to get a different boyfriend with a safer job. One in Maintenance perhaps.
I like it that Spock didn't object to Uhura going on the mission to the Klingon planet in STID. I hope she does the same for him in the next movie. Its OK for her to worry of course but the complaints seem way OTT. I know she has deeper more legitimate concerns from the comic series but STID didn't show these so I can only think from the movie only that Uhura is being unreasonable and controlling.
I still like how brave and outspoken the Uhura character is but I think she needs to be more supportive of Spock or something. And I think Spock and Kirk and Bones can still be a great team even if one or more of them has a girlfriend. I would be happier if Spock or Kirk and Uhura had more professional interactions so you could admire Uhura as an important part of the crew instead of mostly a girlfriend.
Oh my gosh, I can not believe there is so much ignorance on this board. ignorance in the sense that most of you do not know the full story of the new films.
.Uhura got in the way of no one , that is ridiculous and technically not true. uhura is a female lead character. A FEMALE LEAD. Which is the standard norm for all mega films. the writers cut Bones out because they said they wanted to tell a Kirk and Spock story not a Kirk, Spock and Bones sotry. Orci even said the film is inspired by John Lenon and Paul Macatney's relationship from the Beatles.Paul and Joh are space's version of kirk and spock.
this new films is about two alpha males (kirk and spock) and not three. its not the girls fault. its the fault of the writers not the female character who is just feeling the place of a gender role which is a compulsory of every film. please can you point out one summer blockbuster without a female lead?
No character gets any favor in the new films at times. kirk bitches more than uhura. uhura has only bitch once, Kirk and spock have been bitching for two films even to the point of spock bullying kirk by throwing him off the enterprise to a dangerous frozen planet and why becaue he can not tolerate a different opinion.
Thing is, she did what you are asking her to do. In the first movie she didn't stop Spock when he tried to save his parents risking his life (she was concerned and asked what he was doing and he replied and she understood his reason and that he had no better choice) nor she stopped him when he went with Kirk in the narada... she knew he had little chance to come back to her no matter his reassurance he would but she couldn't prevent him from doing his duty. In the last movie she also doesn't stop Spock from going in that volcano, she actually helps him and shows her concern only when he can't see. In the end she's also the one who encouraged Spock to go after Khan. Not to mention her own brave actions and her risking her life.
So the point, i think, is not her having a problem with Spock getting in danger while doing his job. She did the same thing when she decided to talk with the klingons well knowing what they'd do to her. She also did the same in the end when she saved him (and Kirk) with her intertvention in the Spock/khan fight.
She was angry with Spock because he seemed to have a death wish in that volcano. He was the first to go against rules to save the planet but didn't want them to find a way to save him. He accepted death so easily and didn't even say goodbye to her eventi though he had the chance to do so. Then when they save him he's angry instead of grateful (remember Kirk had similar issues with Spock, only he actually was the one who expected him to be human..not Uhura) and as she stated in the scene, he refused to talk about it so she took it as him not giving a damn about his life and made her question his feelings for her too. She wanted him to simply show that he valued her feelings for him AND his life. Spock from his part was probably trying to protect her his own way from knowing/feeling what he felt when he was about to die, or when his mother died or when Pike died...but there is no way any human could understand it from a human perspective. That's why his speech: in that moment he gets it and that he's losing her over a misuranderstanding .
I disagree that Uhura should be more supportive and understanding of his alieness than she already is. How about NO? First of all she's still human and if Spock 'friends' Kirk and McCoy are constantly entlitled to ask him to be human and criticize his vulcan ways and that is painted by kirk-spock-mccoy fans as something great, then it's quite hypocritical to expect his significant other to never complain about his behavior. You're criticizing Uhura for the very thing you like in the Spock-Mccoy dynamic, except she's not that bad or racist with him like TOS McCoy was at times.
It's also big hypocrisy to point fingers at Spock/Uhura for realistically not be professional in regards of their relationship all the time, when the guys are for the friendships way more unprofessional anyway. Uhura is more professional than Kirk and McCoy and she's his girlfriend...so yeah...
But most importantly: stop making Spock the weird alien to understand and justify no matter what. That's not being supportive or accepting him as a person. You know what? In that reality they both are aliens to each other. This means that Uhura had to understand his vulcan perspective AND he had to understand her human perspective. That's what they did in the last movie and that is the realistic portrayal of an interspecies/interracial couple like theirs.
As for getting in the way of kirk-spock-mccoy...you should blame the movies being the Kirk/Spock show for that. She's not the reason you don't see McCoy being an equal protagonist with them the way he never was in the old thing either. Lol
There is not so much new stuff you can do with that old dynamic now especially when they seem to have given Mccoy's role to Kirk here which is visible in the antagonistic dynamic with Spock. Time changes from the 60s and nowadays proposing a story with 3 white dudes front and center is absurd and going backwards. The general audience is already getting progressively sick of the white dude hollywood protagonist cliché and formula.
Yet, no ones complains that McCoy is just Kirk's best friend and actually most of the people who criticize uhura as just the girlfriend are the same complaining that the Spock/Uhura dynamic prevents Spock from being just the nerdy friend and thus defined by his relationship with Kirk and the k/m/s dynamic only.
So I don't even know here... Everytime I read these arguments aside from the dejavu from other fandoms I feel like reading a lesson about inconsistent and incoherent arguments made about female characters that are held to a different standard than the male ones and so are their relationships.
Eta:sorry double post. I'm writing from a tablet and wanted to edit the other one but made a new reply instead.
STAR TREK know-it-alls amuse the hell out of me, they really do. How it's your life's work to enlighten us on every aspect of STAR TREK from how many times Spock cocked his eyebrow onscreen, to what Gene Roddenberry read on the can. Especially the ones who can't be wrong without them typing out a lot of damned foolishness. CommishSleer's fairly knowledgeable about STAR TREK, from a fan's perspective, at least and her opinions usually reflect that. The widest chasm between her views and mine are where Commander Riker stands versus where Captain Kirk stands in STAR TREK's legacy. I am confident that - in the fullness of time - she'll come around to my point of view on the matter ...
Maybe you're mistaking ignorance for a 'difference of opinion'.Oh my gosh, I can not believe there is so much ignorance on this board. ignorance in the sense that most of you do not know the full story of the new films.
I've watched the two films, read the novelisation. I just don't see the Uhura thing the way you do.
And I agree that Kirk was bitching too but I was only talking about Uhura here. In another thread i'll talk about what I think of Kirks actions.
And I'm old school. I watched and watch TOS for the Kirk, Spock and occasionally McCoy interactions (amongst other things). that was the magic for me. If you don't like them then you're in luck because there's too few of them in the Abrams movies. I'm losing out. All I can say is that I miss them.
Yes Spock has spent all his life conforming and bending to the will of others who basically say he's not good enough.
Its great that his girlfriend is now doing the same thing.
Or maybe she should just accept him just as he is. He seems to accept her - lets her kiss him while on duty and in public and lets her tell him off in front of his superior officer.
If she doesn't want to understand her Alien boyfriend then she should drop him and get a new boyfriend who meets her ideals. And I'm actually not being critical of Uhura here - that's what everyone should do.
STAR TREK know-it-alls amuse the hell out of me, they really do. How it's your life's work to enlighten us on every aspect of STAR TREK from how many times Spock cocked his eyebrow onscreen, to what Gene Roddenberry read on the can. Especially the ones who can't be wrong without them typing out a lot of damned foolishness. CommishSleer's fairly knowledgeable about STAR TREK, from a fan's perspective, at least and her opinions usually reflect that. The widest chasm between her views and mine are where Commander Riker stands versus where Captain Kirk stands in STAR TREK's legacy. I am confident that - in the fullness of time - she'll come around to my point of view on the matter ...
That will never happen!
Even I'm not ignorant enough to ever prefer Riker over Kirk.
Maybe you're mistaking ignorance for a 'difference of opinion'.Oh my gosh, I can not believe there is so much ignorance on this board. ignorance in the sense that most of you do not know the full story of the new films.
I've watched the two films, read the novelisation. I just don't see the Uhura thing the way you do.
And I agree that Kirk was bitching too but I was only talking about Uhura here. In another thread i'll talk about what I think of Kirks actions.
And I'm old school. I watched and watch TOS for the Kirk, Spock and occasionally McCoy interactions (amongst other things). that was the magic for me. If you don't like them then you're in luck because there's too few of them in the Abrams movies. I'm losing out. All I can say is that I miss them.
Yes Spock has spent all his life conforming and bending to the will of others who basically say he's not good enough.
Its great that his girlfriend is now doing the same thing.
Or maybe she should just accept him just as he is. He seems to accept her - lets her kiss him while on duty and in public and lets her tell him off in front of his superior officer.
If she doesn't want to understand her Alien boyfriend then she should drop him and get a new boyfriend who meets her ideals. And I'm actually not being critical of Uhura here - that's what everyone should do.
STAR TREK know-it-alls amuse the hell out of me, they really do. How it's your life's work to enlighten us on every aspect of STAR TREK from how many times Spock cocked his eyebrow onscreen, to what Gene Roddenberry read on the can. Especially the ones who can't be wrong without them typing out a lot of damned foolishness. CommishSleer's fairly knowledgeable about STAR TREK, from a fan's perspective, at least and her opinions usually reflect that. The widest chasm between her views and mine are where Commander Riker stands versus where Captain Kirk stands in STAR TREK's legacy. I am confident that - in the fullness of time - she'll come around to my point of view on the matter ...Oh my gosh, I can not believe there is so much ignorance on this board.
That will never happen!
Even I'm not ignorant enough to ever prefer Riker over Kirk.
Yes there is a far line between ignorance and different of opinions. however it is not an opinion of the goals of the writers for the new films. it is of fact that writers and director said they were telling a kirk and spock story. Abrams said this over and over again in the first film DvD commentary. Orci said the same thing when he said the film was modeled after the friendship of Lennon and McCartney from the Beatles.
In the second film where we have the special features, there is an entire documentary dedicated to and on the dynamic of kirk and spock not kirk, spock and bones or even kirk, spock and uhura. it is kirk and spock only.
So it is of fact that the new films have only one dynamic and that is kirk and spock.
it is of fact that uhura did not takes bones place. she is not male. she is filling a female gender lead that has nothing to do with bones.
the writers could have chosen to tell a kirk/spock/bones story and that will not have an effect on the female leading role.a role Uhura's plays by default because she is a girl.
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I shouldn't have to look at the DVD commentary (or lead-in comics or novelisations or Orci's blog whatever) to understand a movie.
Of course Uhura didn't replace McCoy. McCoy was never Spock's girlfriend.
Seriously though they could have dropped some of the Spock doesn't understand me crap from both Uhura and Kirk and STID would have been a lot better IMO.
I shouldn't have to look at the DVD commentary (or lead-in comics or novelisations or Orci's blog whatever) to understand a movie.
Of course Uhura didn't replace McCoy. McCoy was never Spock's girlfriend.
Seriously though they could have dropped some of the Spock doesn't understand me crap from both Uhura and Kirk and STID would have been a lot better IMO.
When you criticize a film based on all the evidence, people call you a hater but honest to God, I deslike the writing of Into Darkness. the romance, the bromance, the villian, the action. I could go on. i find this film poorly written and its sad
because I loved Trek 2009.There was no reason why they could not make it a trinity of kirk, spock and bones and still have a leading female character.
the writers have a weird obsession with kirk and spock. they are the one characters they talk about. its like all other characters are not in existence. its like they were trying to put new kirk and spock on the same level as old kirk and spock and that is just impossible.
On a critical constructive stand point. I wish they had handled the romance better, the romance is poorly written as well.
I wish they have given Bones more to do. I wish they had not forced up to accept the kirk and spock friendship like they way they were in TOS, No one can compete with TOS. TOS Kirk and Spock have like 40+ years worth of friendship and adventure. new kirk and spock do not compare and you should not be trying to compare, they should just do their own thing and be original. this is what into darkness did not do and that is why, it is one of my least favorite trek films.
comparing her only scene in two movies where she's complaining about him (and rightfully so, I might add. Because to me her reaction was quite understandable) to what the vulcan bullies did to him is not only an unfair comparison but it also shows you are not getting my point.
also blowing things out of proportion. I see no hint there that Spock doesn't meet her ideals or she has a problem with his alieness in general versus her having a problem in that particular instance and context.
It seems to me Uhura accepts Spock the way he is
e.g., the scene from the first movie where she comforts him and asks him what he needs and she accepts his way to deal with grief even if it's not hers. She gave to him exactly what he needed: a moment to let go of that pain and then get back to his comfort zone: logic.
Or after the fight with Kirk by letting him be alone even if you can tell she wanted to follow him and be there for him. It doesn't seem to me she ever pushes him to do anything he doesn't want to do.
I think that the whole 'accepting him' doesn't mean for you the same thing it means for me and I honestly think that the least thing Spock needs is a girl who 'accepts him' in your definition.
and again, you're criticizing her for the very thing people give to Kirk and McCoy a free pass for. Doesn't seem to me they accept Spock the way he is and never question that his ways are not 'human' (or more like, different from theirs)
Never read anyone saying that Kirk should find a different friend than Spock if he can't deal with the way he is and his alieness.
maybe just maybe it's because Uhura knows Spock better than others there that his behavior seemed uncharacteristic to her even for him. And it was. In the first movie he risked his life firstly to save his parents and then earth but he didn't seem as uncaring of his life or her feelings as he seemed in the volcano. He still paused his actions to explain his reasons to her and on that transport pad he even went that far saying 'i'll be back' to her only for her own sake and to comfort/reassure her, well knowing he had little chances anyway.
Maybe with her he isn't so closed off, maybe there are ways she can still tell he cares even if he doesn't say things out loud.
I don't even think that his behavior in the volcano and post volcano with her is that much about him being 'alien' than it's about him possibly experiencing that very human thing called PTSD. And if that was the case, his significant other couldn't pretend that his death wish wasn't a thing (that could actually be a problem for that mission itself and put them all at risk) In that, a lot of people can relate to both sides in that scene between them...
And after I just finished asking you, only two posts up, not to make things personal and not to call people ignorant. Warning for flaming; comments to PM.
Oh my gosh, I can not believe there is so much ignorance on this board. ignorance in the sense that most of you do not know the full story of the new films.
<snip>
And you ought to have known better than to respond with baiting of this sort. Warning for trolling; comments to PM.STAR TREK know-it-alls amuse the hell out of me, they really do. How it's your life's work to enlighten us on every aspect of STAR TREK from how many times Spock cocked his eyebrow onscreen, to what Gene Roddenberry read on the can. Especially the ones who can't be wrong without them typing out a lot of damned foolishness. <snip>
Agreed
I think Star Trek has always done romance badly - mainly because eventually someone has to die (in a series format).
I don't even dislike Spock/Uhura. Just keep it in the background a bit more.
I wouldn't mind if the next movie started or ended with their marriage.
I'm old school TOS. What makes TOS magic for me is the Kirk-Spock-McCoy bromance.
Not the fancy spaceships, the transporters, the space battles. Thats just icing on the cake for me.
If JJ Abrams wants to do his own thing the last thing I'd eliminate was the best part of TOS IMO.
I disagree that Spock had a 'death wish' from his actions in the Volcano. He believes in the PD (whatever it is in nuTrek) above his own life. If Uhura is going to complain whenever Spock puts his life in danger because of 'how it affects her' then she is the one endangering the missions.
And as McCoy says, Spock would have left Kirk behind in the volcano.
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