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VTOL Cargo Planes

It seems the situation in Haiti is preventing supplies and aid from being delivered because the only airport is full and planes can't land.

Why in today's world with today's technology do we not have VTOL cargo planes that can land and take off anywhere?
 
Go get a large concrete block.

Put it on a smooth floor.

Push it.

Pick it up.

Scale up for however many concrete blocks or equally weighty things you want to send to over a long distance.

Think about it.
 
Hell VTOL is marginal enough for combat aircraft because of the trades required let along making it usable for heavy lift.
 
You have seen the V-22 Osprey right? It's not big but if you have enough of them you could get quite a bit done.

Probably what is needed is heavy lift helicopters. There are some available.
 
The problem is enough helicopters or VTOL planes to haul that freight would take more room on the parking ramp than more conventional airplanes bringing in the same amount of material.

Many of the releif problems in Hatti are streets blocked by debris or the threat of further building collapse, congestion with all the people in the streets (also fearing further building collapses) and concerns about the safety of relief workers (and continued availability of the trucks) when the desperate people rush at the trucks. The problems are unlikely to improve a lot until amphibious resupply ships come into play (Marines regularly train for such operations in Virginia) and/or the seaport is usable.

With the damaged refueling facilities there are also issues about refueling the relief aircraft. Many air transports cannot be stopped on any but very long runways with a full load of cargo and a large fuel load. Unless the planes can be refueled in Hatti, their range leaving that country would be limited to nearby destinations like the Dominican Republic.

Also: The US spent a lot of money developing the Osprey because in its turboprop "fixed wing" mode has a longer range than helicopters.
 
I have been in C17, they are much bigger, and even then the amount of supplies you can fit in there is still so small while trying to get, and give out, water-food-supplies to 2-2.5 million people. Plus they are too big to land on the island anyways.
 
As mentioned above, STOVL and VTOL require enormous tradeoffs in capacity. The V-22 requires two turboshaft engines with over 6,100HP each to lift its 15,000lb payload. For comparison, the C-27J Spartan, a similarly sized conventional tactical lift aircraft, has two turboshaft engines with 3,400HP, almost double.

So, assuming that scales geometrically, if you wanted something that can deliver the same amount of goods as a C-17 Globemaster, you'll need an aircraft with over 320,000 pounds of thrust. That's basically taking the engines designed for a stretched Airbus A380-900 and putting them on an aircraft 1/3 of the size.

That's not the end of the problem. Once you get an engine that big, you run into two problems 1)cooling the engine, since the engine won't have a large amount of air being rammed into it to cool off. 2)The ground. The ground has two issues, A) the tornado force winds you're going to expose 5 acres of ground to, and B) you're going to have to make sure the tarmac doesn't start to melt under those big hot engines.

Such an aircraft would probably take 20 years and 50 billion dollars to develop and build around 30-100 of the things. They would be incredibly expensive to run, since big engines=big pain at the pump. They would have reliability issues, since they're one-of-a-kind leap in technology. The wouldn't be needed 99% of the time since there just aren't that many things that weigh 75tons and HAVE to be airlifted and it's cheaper to fly conventional aircraft.

In other words, barring some revolutionary anti-gravity technology, such craft are not feasible.
 
OK how about airships? Wasn't there once an idea to build an airship capable of carrying Cargo?

You would need absolutely enormous balloons in order to do any serious hauling. They'd be so large it would make more sense to use conventional aircraft.
 
Know what else is excellent at carrying large amounts of cargo? Cargo ships! Works great, proven technology, massive payloads, i mean, it's a home run!
 
10. Go get a large concrete block.

20. Put it on a smooth floor.

30. Tie helium baloon to it.

40. Does it lift off the ground? If not, repeat step 30.

50. Scale up for however many concrete blocks or equally weighty things you want to send to over a long distance.

60. Think about it.
 
You have seen the V-22 Osprey right? It's not big but if you have enough of them you could get quite a bit done.

Probably what is needed is heavy lift helicopters. There are some available.

The only reason the Osprey even exists is because some pompous-ass wouldn't admit that they're turds. I know several people who were in the Marine Corp who stated that even the pilots DON'T want to fly them. They are deathtraps.
 
vtol.jpg


Couldn't resist. :D
 
Know what else is excellent at carrying large amounts of cargo? Cargo ships! Works great, proven technology, massive payloads, i mean, it's a home run!

Haiti's sea port was damaged in the quake making delivery of supplies by ship difficult allowing only the smallest of ships to dock. If there is an Earthquake in another area of the world and again the airports and seaports get damaged and supplies need to be delivered a VTOL Cargo Aircraft would be advantageous because it could land anywhere.

Do you agree or disagree with what I have just said?

10. Go get a large concrete block.

20. Put it on a smooth floor.

30. Tie helium baloon to it.

40. Does it lift off the ground? If not, repeat step 30.

50. Scale up for however many concrete blocks or equally weighty things you want to send to over a long distance.

60. Think about it.

>>Cargolifter>>

Technology and materials have changed since then likely allowing an increase in the weight of the payload that could be carried. Even if it just delivered clothes and blankets and other similar items it would be more beneficial than not even getting it there at all.

Do you agree or disagree with what I have just said?
 
Know what else is excellent at carrying large amounts of cargo? Cargo ships! Works great, proven technology, massive payloads, i mean, it's a home run!
And they travel at about 20 mph, whilst cargo planes can travel many times faster than that. Not good if you want to transport emergency supplies large distances. I suppose we could have cargo hovercraft. They used to hjave large hovercraft transporting cars accross the English Channel, though nowhere near as fast as aircraft they were faster than ships. There was also those types of ship/aeroplane craft that the Soviets attempted to work on during the cold war that looked like a giant plane but actually glided just above the water at considerable speed.
 
Know what else is excellent at carrying large amounts of cargo? Cargo ships! Works great, proven technology, massive payloads, i mean, it's a home run!

Haiti's sea port was damaged in the quake making delivery of supplies by ship difficult allowing only the smallest of ships to dock. If there is an Earthquake in another area of the world and again the airports and seaports get damaged and supplies need to be delivered a VTOL Cargo Aircraft would be advantageous because it could land anywhere.

Do you agree or disagree with what I have just said?

The problem is the technology doesn't simply scale upwards, as others have noted. It takes a lot of power to lift a big helicopter, which is nowhere near as efficient as in an aircraft.

The world's largest helicopter is the Russian Mi-26, which can only carry about as much as a C-130. Granted that is a fair bit of cargo, but it's peanuts compared to the speed and efficiency of a good group of transport planes. Helicopters and other VTOL aircraft are much better served in more specialized roles, like medivac or troop transport. In a case like Haiti, STOL aircraft might be much more useful.
 
As already pointed out by several posters, VTOL aircraft need a lot of power to fly. If it's difficult for a Harrier Jump Jet, it'd be next to impossible to lift a much bigger cargo aircraft using that technology. Guess we'll have to wait till someone invents anti-gravity. Maybe that same person will create space elevators, too! ;)
 
It seems the situation in Haiti is preventing supplies and aid from being delivered because the only airport is full and planes can't land.

Why in today's world with today's technology do we not have VTOL cargo planes that can land and take off anywhere?

They've looked at it many times before. Why isn't there one yet then?

1) aircraft would be much more expensive than a traditional aircraft. Right now, the Osprey costs more than a C-2 and a AW101, the aircraft it does the job of, combined.

2) decreased speed, payload, and range compared to comparable turboprop aircraft. Compared to the above mentioned C-2 greyhound, it is 40knots slower and has only 2/3rds the range. This is tolerated because its twice as fast as a helicopter and unlike an airplane can sling external loads.

3) Complex as hell. They Osprey took over 20 years and the most modern flight computers to be to enter service. Without them, it would be very crash prone like the designs that came before it.

This isn't like scifi where vertical flight is easy. In real life, its very difficult and expensive for anything beyond a helicopter.
 
>>Cargolifter>>

Technology and materials have changed since then likely allowing an increase in the weight of the payload that could be carried. Even if it just delivered clothes and blankets and other similar items it would be more beneficial than not even getting it there at all.

Do you agree or disagree with what I have just said?

Nope, I don't, Mr Aerospace. The tech hasn't changed enough.

Consider:

LZ 129 Hindenburg
Crew: 40 to 61
Capacity: 50-72 passengers
Length: 245 m (803 ft 10 in)
Diameter: 41 m (130 ft 0 in)
Volume: 200,000 m³ (7,100,000 ft³)
Powerplant: 4 × Daimler-Benz DB 602 diesel engines, 890 kW (1,200 hp) each


If it takes a nearly a quarter of a million cubic meters to loft a mere 133 people with 399 person/days of consumables, exactly how much sail area will you attempt to overcome with power for an INCREDIBLY MASSIVE Airship a la Taccy?

Oops! Almost forgot! You need to drastically increase the balloon size to get the same lift with Helium...provided saftey is to be a factor.
 
Hey, I thought Legend perfected magnet technology! Wouldn't that work? Why is he withholding it when Haiti needs supplies NOW?!? :p
 
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