Voyager was the best spin-off for its first two seasons

[at Quark's]

I use a different rule for myself:

rule 1a) Note to self: No matter how much I like a series, and/or a character, never forget:
.............1aa) The series is not my property; the owners can do what they like, whether I like it or not
.............1ab) It's only entertainment; not worth getting too frustrated or annoyed over when something happens which I don't like.

 

[Oddish]

1ab) It's only entertainment; not worth getting too frustrated or annoyed over if something happens you don't like.

Given the sheer magnitude of stupidity we saw with VOY's creators, I think such an attitude would be almost necessary where it's concerned!

 

[fireproof78]

All art is best taken with a grain of salt. Creators are not going to be in love with their creation the same ways as fans are. Fans, by nature, become enamored with all the moving pieces it takes to make a story. Creators, see all those parts as distinct from each other, trying to weave them together. What might be regarded as stupid or cruel is simply valuing once piece over another by a creator.

I had three different, really distinct, experiences with this idea. The first was seeing the film "Starship Troopers, " vs. reading the book. The second was with the first Deus Ex game to the second. And finally Garfield.

Insisting creatives got it wrong ignores the nature of art, and that different process involved in creating. And that the audience is sole atbiter.

 

[UnknownSample]

Rewatching, season 1 was more interesting than I'd thought, as the crew is coming to know each other. Season 2, though, until later series came along, was the least good Trek season for me. I'm stopping myself from saying "worst". Voyager struggled creatively and struggled in the ratings for quite some time. Things started to become interesting when the first signs of entering Borg space appeared.
=======
I believe Voyager s4/5 coincided with DS9 s6/7... and it was a charmed moment when we had two Trek series firing on all cyllinders at the same time! Season 5 had a long, unbroken series of good, solid stories. The problems seemed to be fixed.
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No need to rebut ... the love for Voyager seasons 1 and 2 is already overflowing here. Tuvix was interesting. But the Warp 10/platypus story was more the norm for s2 than the exception, I think.

 

[Lynx]

I love your Rule 4 , never mind it's an impossible one for people like me. Seriously, if I were locked up in a room being told I couldn't leave until I'd written a book (especially a GOOD book), I'd probably rot there for the rest of my life ... It's so much easier to make wallpapers, you work with what's already a given.

So hats off to the people that can write good stories. Seriously.

As for Kes, it'd be lovely to see her again - played by Jennifer Lien, of course. But it's unlikely it'll happen. Plus, you said it yourself: Star Trek is dystopia these days. I'm not sure even you'd be able to appreciate her in those stories and among those circumstances. I certainly wouldn't. The best thing I can imagine with her - for her - is a few books written by people who actually LIKE the character and who could put her back in the original VOY timeline or thereabout. I think anything else would just be ... un-Kes.

I can write good stories. Unfortunately I don't have so much time for it.
I have some half-written stories in the can, I just have to take some time and finish them.

We don't know and this last season demonstrates differently in terms of lengths gone.

I find those rules cumbersome and too safe.

If one approaches art to avoid disappointment then there is never any possibility of growth.

As for "dystopian " I just role my eyes.


Because that was never the intention of the books.

I don't think of sheer destruction as "growth"

As for "dystopian", admit that the 90's was more fun than this dreadful decade.

I use a different rule for myself:

rule 1a) Note to self: No matter how much I like a series, and/or a character, never forget:
.............1aa) The series is not my property; the owners can do what they like, whether I like it or not
.............1ab) It's only entertainment; not worth getting too frustrated or annoyed over when something happens which I don't like.

The owners do own the rights but if they care about their fans..............oooooops, I mean their beloved wallets, then they should be careful to become too destructive. After all it's we who pay their wages.

And since I do pay their wages with my hard-earned money by buying DVDs, books and actually watching their shows I do have all the right to be angry and expres my anger when they insult me by producing DVDs which are unwatchable after being viewed two or three times and destroy my favorite characters in TV episodes or books.

 

[at Quark's]

^They should, but if they don't, the consequences are for them, too. I'll simply move on to something else if the franchise is developing in a direction I don't like and 'vote with my wallet' - though I might be rewatching the old stuff I did like every now and then.

I agree that no-good DVD's are a different matter, you should be able to complain about that somewhere. Not sure who'd ultimately bear responsibility for that, though. The franchise owner, or the DVD producer, or perhaps some third party I haven't thought of.

 

[Oddish]

But the Warp 10/platypus story was more the norm for s2 than the exception, I think.

S2 was all over the place. It produced triumphs like "Deadlock" and "The Thaw". It also produced travesties like "Threshold".

 

[Farscape One]

S2 was all over the place. It produced triumphs like "Deadlock" and "The Thaw". It also produced travesties like "Threshold".

You want a season that was all over the place in terms of quality? VOY season 6.

This was how each week went... good, great, okay, great, good, okay, good, great, meh, good, very bad, bad, excellent, terrible, bad, great, awful, terrible, meh, meh, horrible, okay, good, good, okay, horrible.

No consistency in quality at all... the most schizophrenic season of quality ever. And the season premiere, "EQUINOX, PART II", should have been the first clue as to what we were in store for this season. Janeway starts off on her obsessive mission to get Ransom, an obsession so consuming she relieved Chakotay, threatened to do that with Tuvok, nearly got Crewman Lessing killed just to get information, and told the aliens she would be selling out the Equinox. But when Ransom appears on the screen near the end, she suddenly says, "He may have forgotten he was a Starfleet officer for a minute, but he remembers now." Or words to that effect, and is softened up on him. She went from going full Ahab to a reasonable person with no explanation shown. Janeway was written inconsistently throughout the series, but she was never this wishy washy within the same episode. No wonder Ronald D. Moore left after less than a month on staff. (And I will always make the argument that he would have made things much better for seasons 6-7. Just look at the one episode he did for VOY, "SURVIVAL INSTINCT", as proof.)

Now, no season in the franchise is without its misses (except DS9 season 4, where only the A story for "THE MUSE" was meh... the entire rest of the season was pure gold), and while I don't think "THRESHOLD" is anywhere near as bad as people say (though the last 5 minutes does bring it down a lot), season 2 did have a few bad ones. Which is no different than virtually every other season in the franchise. But VOY season 2, I think, had more good than bad in it.

 

[Oddish]

Janeway was written inconsistently throughout the series, but she was never this wishy washy within the same episode.

Reminds me of Picard in "Homeward".

 

[Farscape One]

Reminds me of Picard in "Homeward".

I can see that.

 

[fireproof78]

As for "dystopian", admit that the 90's was more fun than this dreadful decade.

Maybe for you.

I enjoyed the 2000s more. None of which was "dystopian. "

but if they care about their fans.....

They don't.

It's business.

 

[Oddish]

In Season 1, TNG was figuring out what it wanted to be.
DS9 had a pretty good idea, though it would evolve organically.
VOY had a premise, but abandoned most of it early on and the rest of it later, in favor of being TNG 2.0
And ENT refused to be the prequel show it should have been.

 

[Lynx]

Maybe for you.

I enjoyed the 2000s more. None of which was "dystopian. "

The beginning of the 2000's were OK, it started to go down in 2020.

They don't.

It's business.

Then they don't deserve my respect.
Since they don't respect the fans, I see no reason to respect them when they do things which annoys me.
And remember that "business" has been an excuse for the worst atrocities many times.

 

[Oddish]

The beginning of the 2000's were OK, it started to go down in 2020.

The world didn't go dark then... it just went nuts.

 

[fireproof78]

The beginning of the 2000's were OK, it started to go down in 2020.

I have been hearing about the end of world since I was 8 in the 90s. So, to me, it is no different now.

Then they don't deserve my respect.
Since they don't respect the fans, I see no reason to respect them when they do things which annoys me.
And remember that "business" has been an excuse for the worst atrocities many times.

The only respect I give a business is predicated I use their service and they provide it. That's the nature of the business. I expect more and demand no more than that.

 

[Lynx]

I have been hearing about the end of world since I was 8 in the 90s. So, to me, it is no different now.

Well, I'm not an "end of the world" pessimist. I stay away from such destructive things. Those people are just ruining their own lives and others too.
But I must admit that I don't find this decade funny, at least not when it comes to entertainment, such as music, movies and such.

The only respect I give a business is predicated I use their service and they provide it. That's the nature of the business. I expect more and demand no more than that.

Well, I expect a little more, especially when I pay for it.
I do respect all those producers, writers and whatsoever for their creativity and for providing what they do for us who like their products.
But when I find something wrong, then I complain.

 

[fireproof78]

But I must admit that I don't find this decade funny, at least not when it comes to entertainment, such as music, movies and such.

Not funny = dystopian?

But when I find something wrong, then I complain.

Sure, but that's business.

 

[Oddish]

Not dystopian... just ludicrous. But I have a feeling that dystopian may be closer than we think. With everything ruled by the Internet the way it is, the whole western world is a house of cards. One super-sophisticated computer virus, and we're back in the 1870's.

 

[fireproof78]

Not dystopian... just ludicrous. But I have a feeling that dystopian may be closer than we think. With everything ruled by the Internet the way it is, the whole western world is a house of cards. One super-sophisticated computer virus, and we're back in the 1870's.

Y2K is back in vogue!

Sorry, I'm sure different people have differences of opinions, but for me, the 90s and 00s were not exactly positive and swinging good times. There was so much division around the wars, and the elections and on and on, as well as media was not always fun and good be very depressing at times.

So, to me, this just same old, same old, and if it's dystopian now, it's been that way for as long as I can remember. It's just that I'm older now so I see it happening more often. Greater awareness.

 

[at Quark's]

The last time I had a good feeling about the future was in the early 90s. Cold war had ended, no more division in the continent where I live (Europe), and the war on terrorism hadn't started yet.

That's not to say I rationally think the current era is any more 'dystopian' than earlier (say, the 70's or perhaps even than the 90's themselves). I'm just a little older now, and challenges are simply different.

Oh, and while I'm fond of computers, I share the sentiment that perhaps we've become too dependent on them. One Carrington event level solar flare and we may be in deep trouble.