Maybe Lower Decks can tackle it.
Voyager was the best spin-off for its first two seasons
- Thread starter Miltonic
- Start date
I wasn't proposing that. I was proposing that "the F-episode" never happen. Kes's return would happen one year later.
Lower Decks is a cartoon series.
I expect something more than that for the surrection of Kes.
As for the "energy-being" mumbo-jumbo, just skip that.
Restore her as she was in seasons 1-3 with a human lifespam
it does in the story Coming Home-the best Star Trek Voyager episode never made!
It takes place in the beginning of Season 7.
Why?Lower Decks is a cartoon series.
I expect something more than that for the surrection of Kes.
They tackle serious topics and revisit Trek history. Don't dismiss it as a cartoon.
You might be right.
But I find cartoons a bit difficult to see as what could correct create new Trek history and correct errors from the past, although I actually like good cartoons.
I must also state that when it comes to Kes, I've given up hope because those involved with current Trek series are so back-tied by previous "canon" that thei neither don't dare to change or correct past mstakes, nor have the imagination or will to simply come up wth an good explanation which simply change the errors by "writing round" them.
Not to mention that people in common don't take cartoons seriously.
Lower Decks has done an amazing job, especially this last season. Dismissing it out of hand might be common but it is in error.
I'm with @fireproof78 -- Lower Decks is indubitably goofy, but it's obviously created by people who both know and love Star Trek.
I know that.
And I'm not against the show in any way.
But unfortunately, there are very few people who takes cartoons seriously.
So if kes was resurrected in the best possible way in this show, there would be a lot of people who would say something about that it's just a cartoon and therefore it doesn't count.
It's bad enough with the attitude against the books where one always is slammed in the face with: "Books are not canon!"
And that matters...why?
Books are a different matter altogether. They are not canon and are not ever mean to be. On screen material is. And individual attitudes about canon are meaningless to personal enjoyment.
I'm assuming that "best possible way" is concordant with the events of "Coming Home".
Recreating that in live action, if "Legacy" was a thing, would be difficult. Even if Jennifer Lien could return (and after LD brought Shannon Fill back after a 27-year hiatus, I'm not saying it's impossible), the event would presumably have already happened, long ago. But LD could recreate it fairly simply; all they would need was to record dialogue with Lien and John de Lancie.
Recreating that in live action, if "Legacy" was a thing, would be difficult. Even if Jennifer Lien could return (and after LD brought Shannon Fill back after a 27-year hiatus, I'm not saying it's impossible), the event would presumably have already happened, long ago. But LD could recreate it fairly simply; all they would need was to record dialogue with Lien and John de Lancie.
I completely agree about LOWER DECKS being a great show. The writers there very, very clearly love and know the franchise. They've written remarkably good episodes... with half the run time of a typical Berman era series. At least give it a chance.
As to the topic, I will agree that the first two seasons are much better than many people say. While the idea of the Kazon was good, I don't really like their execution of them. They came across as... well, stupid, to be honest.
The Vidiians, though... best species VOY made. As a horror fan, I loved their appearance. And they had a built-in moral dilemma just by their existence... is it right to steal organs and kill others to keep your society and people alive? Loved them!
Season 1 was actually really, really good. I am also counting the 4 holdovers in my analysis because they were produced for season 1, and "THE 37's" functions far better as a season finale than a season premiere. (While "LEARNING CURVE" was a good episode, it doesn't feel like a season finale.)
I do the same with season 2... counting the 4 holdovers that were used for season 3. And it's a really, really good season. "PERSISTENCE OF VISION", "MANEUVERS", "RESISTANCE", "DEATH WISH", "ALLIANCES", "THRESHOLD", "MELD", "DREADNOUGHT", "LIFESIGNS", "DEADLOCK", "THE THAW", "TUVIX"... this season was full of great ones. And while the Kazon arc with Paris was not that great, at least VOY was trying an arc... arcs are something that the premise of the series almost demands, just as much as DS9's premise.
Someone here said that season 2 was the nadir of VOY... I disagree. For me, that's season 3. The beginning and end parts of season 3 were really good, but so much of the middle was just... meh or bad. It brought the whole season down.
As to the topic, I will agree that the first two seasons are much better than many people say. While the idea of the Kazon was good, I don't really like their execution of them. They came across as... well, stupid, to be honest.
The Vidiians, though... best species VOY made. As a horror fan, I loved their appearance. And they had a built-in moral dilemma just by their existence... is it right to steal organs and kill others to keep your society and people alive? Loved them!
Season 1 was actually really, really good. I am also counting the 4 holdovers in my analysis because they were produced for season 1, and "THE 37's" functions far better as a season finale than a season premiere. (While "LEARNING CURVE" was a good episode, it doesn't feel like a season finale.)
I do the same with season 2... counting the 4 holdovers that were used for season 3. And it's a really, really good season. "PERSISTENCE OF VISION", "MANEUVERS", "RESISTANCE", "DEATH WISH", "ALLIANCES", "THRESHOLD", "MELD", "DREADNOUGHT", "LIFESIGNS", "DEADLOCK", "THE THAW", "TUVIX"... this season was full of great ones. And while the Kazon arc with Paris was not that great, at least VOY was trying an arc... arcs are something that the premise of the series almost demands, just as much as DS9's premise.
Someone here said that season 2 was the nadir of VOY... I disagree. For me, that's season 3. The beginning and end parts of season 3 were really good, but so much of the middle was just... meh or bad. It brought the whole season down.
Lower Decks is on screen canon, cartoon or not, it doesn't matter what those folks think. If there was ever to be a return of Kes it'll be on either LDS or PRO. PRO more likely. But, if we haven't seen Harry Kim yet I don't think that Kes is very likely.
Harry may or may not be in Season 2. He's never been far from the franchise, which makes it downright strange that he never returned before. They may have decided early on that he and the Doc were the natural choices for Adm. Janeway's crew. Or, they may have said he was "assigned" to Prodigy to explain why he wasn't on PIC or LD, but with the supposed plan of adding him in a later season (which they know is unlikely to occur).
Kes is a longer shot for PRO... Wang was never far from Trek, Lien is. And since it's debatable whether PRO will go over two seasons, it might not matter if she could be brought back... there could be no series for her to be in!
They could always recast if Lien is unavailable. Much easier to do with animation! Also, when I say it is a long shot for Kes to return I speak only of the character. Lien returning is almost certainly not going to happen. I mean they recast Icheb and the actor would have gladly come back.
They seem to try to get the same actor back, though. Look at Shannon Fill, after all!
Yes, yes and yes again!
You're probably right here.
But still a bit strange that a cartoon, exellently well-done or not counts more than a well-written book.
I would rather see an animated kes than that they bring in an actress who hardly look like Kes.
The only actresses I could possibly accept in such cases are Kirsten Dunst, Renee O'Connor and Nicole DeBoer.
As for Icheb, I never cared that much about that character.
But what they did to him in Picard was disgusting.
What happened there was the first nail in the coffin for me when it comes to Picard. What finally made me lose interest was when they killed off Picard and resureected him as an android. A totally unnecessary and stupid thing.
I rather live without a Kes come-back than having her back to be even more destroyed than she was in that episode in season 6.
Maybe.
But I don't think that would happen because I don't think that Lien is interested anymore and no one involved with the series are interested anymore.
So I'll stick woth the Lynxverse according to my rules of watching new Star Trek series and reading Star Trek books.
Rule 1: Never ever trust or like a series on TV, an autor ,a book or any book series.
Sooner or later something will show up which makes you very dissapointed and will change your opinion.
Rule 2: Never ever have a favorite character! That character will be killed off or ruined sooner or later.
Rule 3: Always be cautious with everything made and written after 1999.
Always remember that dystopia now rules in the "Gray Universe".
Rule 4: If you want to read a really good story which you really like, write it yourself!
Rule 5: When stuck in some contradiction, always stick to the Lynxverse!
It's the one and only option if you will stay happy with Star Trek.
I guess that Rule 5 is the accurate one here.
I love your Rule 4
, never mind it's an impossible one for people like me. Seriously, if I were locked up in a room being told I couldn't leave until I'd written a book (especially a GOOD book), I'd probably rot there for the rest of my life ... 
It's so much easier to make wallpapers, you work with what's already a given.So hats off to the people that can write good stories. Seriously.
As for Kes, it'd be lovely to see her again - played by Jennifer Lien, of course. But it's unlikely it'll happen. Plus, you said it yourself: Star Trek is dystopia these days. I'm not sure even you'd be able to appreciate her in those stories and among those circumstances. I certainly wouldn't. The best thing I can imagine with her - for her - is a few books written by people who actually LIKE the character and who could put her back in the original VOY timeline or thereabout. I think anything else would just be ... un-Kes.
We don't know and this last season demonstrates differently in terms of lengths gone.
I find those rules cumbersome and too safe.
If one approaches art to avoid disappointment then there is never any possibility of growth.
As for "dystopian " I just role my eyes.
Because that was never the intention of the books.
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