Voyager vs the Borg

[Bratprinceuk]

I know this is probably one of the main hates for the Voyager series and probably brought up loads of times but how is an Intrepid Class deep space science vessel able to get into a dog fight with a tactical cube (Unimatrix Zero) and survive?

The entire fleet went against one borg (non-tactical) cube at 359 and lost. The entire fleet went against a cube at the defensive of sol (First Contact) and until the Enterprise turned up (more advanced than Voyager and more tactically focused) the fleet was losing. But Voyager has been able to go against the Borg countless times and survived; was this ever explained?

 

[Sophie74656]

This was easily explained. Most of the time Voyager went up against a small ship, one that was already damaged or weakened, or in the case of Unimatrix Zero B'elanna had disabled the cube's shields from the inside.

The only time Voyager was able to do some major damage to a full strength full size cube was in Endgame when they had the technology from the future.

 

[Bratprinceuk]

But the the weapons were still active and should of cut through Voyagers Shields in no time.

Seems like a really bad production excuse to allow Voyager to go against an enemy that should of easily killed them.

 

[Sophie74656]

Are you referring to Unimatrix Zero? They were certainly beating up Voyager quite badly

CHAKOTAY: Target their shield generators. Stand by phasers.
PARIS: Commander?
(A green Borg torpedo is heading their way.)
CHAKOTAY: Shields to full. Brace for impact.
KIM: Someone's accessing our tactical controls. Our shields are down.
CHAKOTAY: Evasive manoeuvres.
(The torpedo punches a hole in the hull.)
EMH: Sensors are offline. I've lost the away team.
KIM: Hull breaches, decks five, six, seven.
CHAKOTAY: Reverse course.
PARIS: We can't just leave them.
CHAKOTAY: The Borg have our access codes. Get us out of here.

 

[Prax]

Plus they had another cube fighting against it, right? They weren't alone.

When the Ent D first encountered the Borg, the blew up like 1/3 of the cube in one hit. The threat of them was that they could regenerate.

 

[Voth commando1]

Voyager got through because of a few reasons-luck, the Borg being damaged, and really the Borg didn't put that much effort into assimilating or destroying Voyager at any rate as one ship wasn't a real threat even in the heart of their space.

 

[at Quark's]

Realistically, with TNG-style Borg it should not have been possible for Voyager to survive.

An in-universe explanation I prefer is that the first time they met the Borg, they were in an alliance, and survived on that note (and on Chakotay's scant experiences with a Borg-like collective at the end of that ep). After that, they had 7 of 9 aboard who could give them all kinds of inside information, inspiring new tactics that exploited weaknesses of the Borg that were unknown until 7 revealed them.

 

[Sophie74656]

Realistically, with TNG-style Borg it should not have been possible for Voyager to survive.

An in-universe explanation I prefer is that the first time they met the Borg, they were in an alliance, and survived on that note (and on Chakotay's scant experiences with a Borg-like collective at the end of that ep). After that, they had 7 of 9 aboard who could give them all kinds of inside information, inspiring new tactics that exploited weaknesses of the Borg that were unknown until 7 revealed them.

Well people have just posted why it WAS realistically possible.

It was not possible for Voyager to go up against a full size cube at full power and they didn't without other factors like weapons from the future or assimilated crew members inside

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

I think the tactical cube was the one that made me raise my eyebrow the most.

 

[Sophie74656]

I think the tactical cube was the one that made me raise my eyebrow the most.

The tactical cube that they went up against in Unimatrix Zero? What made you raise your eyebrow? They shut down Voyager's sheilds punched a torpedo through their hull and all but destroyed Voyager. The only reason the cube was destroyed was because B'Elanna shut down the sheilds from the inside and then the Queen ordered that cube to self destruct.

 

[Prax]

And remember Seven was always like "Seven to the fleet! Target all of your weapons onto the following coordinates."

 

[Christmas Canon Spock]

The tactical cube that they went up against in Unimatrix Zero? What made you raise your eyebrow? They shut down Voyager's sheilds punched a torpedo through their hull and all but destroyed Voyager. The only reason the cube was destroyed was because B'Elanna shut down the sheilds from the inside and then the Queen ordered that cube to self destruct.

That they thought they could beat it? The conclusion didn't bother me, just Janeway's immediate "We're going to find a way in."

 

[Sophie74656]

That they thought they could beat it? The conclusion didn't bother me, just Janeway's immediate "We're going to find a way in."

Well yeah, but it was the only cube in the area and even Seven was like dude are you crazy that's a tactical cube

 

[Prax]

They aren't invincible. They were able to destroy the star-fleet because they assimilated Picard. In First Contact, Starfleet destroyed a Cube.

 

[at Quark's]

^Only after Picard arrived at the scene. Before he did, it looked like the fleet was beginning to lose the battle. (they were calling out for reinforcements, defense perimeter had been broken, Admiral's ship destroyed, Worf saying that he'd ram the cube with the Defiant, etc).

 

[Voth commando1]

And that was only one cube think of what a whole borg invasion fleet could do.

 

[Sophie74656]

They aren't invincible. They were able to destroy the star-fleet because they assimilated Picard. In First Contact, Starfleet destroyed a Cube.

Well Starfleet was suffering heavy losses, they had lost several ships. It wasn't until Picard arrived and gave them the coordinates to fire on the Borg cube that the battle turned around. I think it's also a safe assumption that the cube wasn't fighting back at it's full strength since it's reason for being there was not to fight back but to do that thing where they went back in time.

 

[Sophie74656]

And that was only one cube think of what a whole borg invasion fleet could do.

This is why I believe the Borg have no interest in the Federation or the Alpha quadrant. Since they had already assimilated Picard they know everything a Starfleet captian knows, they know Starfleet's capability, technology, tactics...anything Picard knew. And from the battle at Wolf359 they knew that the Federation could not put up much of a fight against them. So there was nothing for the Borg to gain from going after the Federation.

 

[DonIago]

I rather prefer to think they're baiting the Federation to develop stronger tech that the Borg can learn from and adapt to without having to do the hard work themselves.

The "Destiny" novel trilogy posits (for my money, pretty realistically) what a full-out Borg attack would look like, and in such circumstances, there's no chance Starfleet or most of the AQ powers shown in the franchise have a real chance in a straight-up fight.

 

[Prax]

^Only after Picard arrived at the scene. Before he did, it looked like the fleet was beginning to lose the battle. (they were calling out for reinforcements, defense perimeter had been broken, Admiral's ship destroyed, Worf saying that he'd ram the cube with the Defiant, etc).

So in the first battle, the Borg had assimilated Picard, and used his knowledge and experience to destroy all those ships. In the second battle, Starfleet had Picard back, who used his Borgish experience to destroy the cube.

In Voyager's encounters they had Seven, who helped protect Voyager, and helped them learn the weaknesses of the Borg to defend themselves. In Unimatrix Zero, they had "Klingon Borg Warrior Dude" and his Borg Death Star ship who helped them. They tried to get the cube to drop its shields. When they were close to succeeding, the Queen self-destructed(I'm assuming she was hoping to kill Janeway for her treachery or something)