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Voyager Hate

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The thing about Enterprise is that by the time it got good everybody had stopped watching it.

The difference between the negative reaction to Voyager and the negative reaction to Enterprise is that Voyager started with expectations and Enterprise didn't.
 
The audience was already planning on bashing VOY when it started, whereas ENT got the indifferent response because no one had any expectations by then.
 
The audience was already planning on bashing VOY when it started, whereas ENT got the indifferent response because no one had any expectations by then.

No. No. TNG had been off the air for about a year, and DS9 was doing well during the late season 3 early season 4 period. Star Trek was in its prime, at it's height of popularity. Voyager had an unprecedented platform on which to catapult itself upward.
 
Yeah, the belief that people "plan on bashing" things meant to entertain them is usually hugely delusional. That they have aspirations and expectations of entertainment is a different thing, a difference usually elided by people determined on making excuses for failure or trying to quench controversy.
 
Yeah, the belief that people "plan on bashing" things meant to entertain them is usually hugely delusional. That they have aspirations and expectations of entertainment is a different thing, a difference usually elided by people determined on making excuses for failure or trying to quench controversy.

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with watching a TV show, or movie, and saying "that didn't live up to what I had hoped." It happens all of the time. I just don't see millions of viewers cackling with glee at the prospect of hating a show just to hate it.
 
Honestly, I remember being pretty excited by VOY's debut episode. They set up a lot of interesting dynamics, especially character dynamics, that unfortunately were never really followed through.
 
Honestly, I remember being pretty excited by VOY's debut episode. They set up a lot of interesting dynamics, especially character dynamics, that unfortunately were never really followed through.
Same here. I was excited by the prospect of the series, and thoroughly enjoyed the pilot episode.
 
Let's lay it down in the beginning that I'm a DS9/TNG fan and I might be biased towards them. Many here expressed their opinions about the problems with Voyager and I agree with most. Let's see my main points:

- Reset button in the beginning of all episodes. This bugs me the most. Enterprise nailed it with the Xindi arc where with every episode, the ship was deteriorating and taking visible damage. Even DS9 played with this a little bit, always having something wrong with the station in the beginning. In later seasons of DS9 it was believable that the station was in proper condition, as they probably got the "funding" after DS9 became one of the most important pieces of "real estate" in the Alpha Quadrant. In TNG, it was also believable that the Enterprise-D was always in top condition as they were quite close to home. However, Voyager, lost in the Delta Quadrant, with limited resources, looked like it just rolled out of Spacedock in the beginning of every single episode. Except for a few cases, USS Voyager, with insufficient resources and alone, was always in a better condition than poor 1701-A ever was...

- Character diversity. Okay, in the 60s, having Spock as a regular was probably just as daring as having Uhura as a regular. By the time we got Voyager, I hoped to have more alien regulars, or at least less humans from the US/UK. Maybe it's just the European in me, but I would like to see Star Trek being something different than "Americans in Space". Alright, we got Jean-Luc the English Frenchman, who is on the borderline of being the kind of character I want to see more of. But if we need Human characters, why always US or UK? How about German, Polish, Czech, Hungarian, Italian, Dutch, Swedish, Finnish, etc. characters? Or a Russian character, who is not Russian for comic relief and does not have an exaggerated accent? Why not have South American people on board? What about an Indian character, an Arab, a Persian, a Turkish crewman? (You might call me dumb and naive, but I think it would perfectly fit Star Trek's ever-optimistic view of the future if two best friends, let's say Tom and Harry, were not European-American and Asian-American, but Israeli and Arab, respectively...) Going back to seeing it alienwise, I think DS9 did it again, by writing hell of a characters who were non-human. Kira, Dax, Odo, Garak, Dukat, Weyoun... they did an awesome job with the aliens. Then it's Voyager, and we're having almost everyone human or human-looking again.

Okay, this post is turning from "what's my problem with Voyager" into "how would my imagined Star Trek series look like", which is probably the root of the problem: Voyager was not what I expected it to be. Let's get back to the topic:

- Poor handling of supporting characters. I must compare to DS9 again, with tons of brilliant supporting characters on a huge space station. But maybe even TNG did more justice to its recurring characters (Barclay, O'Brien, Ro, etc). Then having a small ship with a crew of 150, you would imagine it's like a huge family where everyone meets everyone. Yet we mostly only had the main characters do everything, like the other 140-something people just being there so there could be casualties during an attack without killing the main crew. Okay, we had recurrings that were background people with no lines, those originally made for TNG (Barclay, Troi, Q), those who died anyway (Joe Carey), and the Borg kids who were kind of okay to have. But nobody else, really. And this disappointed me again.

- God-ship. This was probably the most annoying for me. I remember in Q Who and in The Best of Both Worlds, the Galaxy-class helplessly kneeling before one Borg cube, firing all it's got. Then in First Contact, a bunch of ships designed to fight the Borg, fighting one cube again, with little success. And then, we're having USS Voyager, a ship designed for exploration and not combat, fighting it's way through Borg space and whatnot nearly without a scratch. (Even if there is a scratch it's reset by the next episode anyway.) It gets totally maxed out with god armor and one-shot one-kill transphasic torpedoes.

Okay, so these are the things that bug me most. Other than these little things, I still love Voyager as part of one of my most favorite franchises. But it's true that it's my least favorite Star Trek series. DS9 and TNG are on the first place for me, then Enterprise - this might surprise someone, but I actually think it's a pretty good series and I really enjoyed Season 3 and 4, I was sad to see it being cancelled. TOS has another first place in my heart, but on a different scale - it's like you love your mother and your girlfriend/wife differently, you know. TOS is very much a favorite of mine, but I can't and don't compare it to its spinoffs. Voyager is, unfortunately, the least favorite.

I hope Voyager fans won't kill me now :) I'm not all that good at conflict handling and I often write up then delete posts at online discussion boards because I don't want to create conflict.

P.S.: If they ever release Voyager on Blu-ray, and on every single video frame where Seven of Nine appears they photoshop her out of her catsuit and into a Starfleet uniform, I will touch myself vehemently throughout the whole last 4 seasons. :lol:
 
One thing about Voyager is that is was UPN's flagship show. It stayed UPN's flagship show for all seven years because just about everything else on that network was cancelled and replaced. Enterprise took over Voyager's spot, but I think its flagship spot had been taken by something else by then.

Interestingly enough, UPN didn't last very long after Enterprise was cancelled.
 
Okay, this post is turning from "what's my problem with Voyager" into "how would my imagined Star Trek series look like", which is probably the root of the problem: Voyager was not what I expected it to be. Let's get back to the topic:

Yeah, you've got to watch that, because you know how we are as Trek fans: once we get on a roll, we just want to keep going. :lol:

Oh, and welcome to the board! :)
 
Yeah, you've got to watch that, because you know how we are as Trek fans: once we get on a roll, we just want to keep going. :lol:

Oh, and welcome to the board! :)
I'll try doing that ;)

And thanks, actually I've been registered since a while but I haven't been posting a lot... that might or might not change in the future. :)
 
Okay, this post is turning from "what's my problem with Voyager" into "how would my imagined Star Trek series look like", which is probably the root of the problem: Voyager was not what I expected it to be. Let's get back to the topic:

Yeah, you've got to watch that, because you know how we are as Trek fans: once we get on a roll, we just want to keep going. :lol:

Oh, and welcome to the board! :)

No kidding. I was rather enjoying the perspective on what another Trek show could be. Or even any speculative fiction piece, in my opinion.

Voyager had some fun moments, but I think my biggest criticism is that it was too formulaic and played it too safe. There was never any risk of the crew staying in the Delta Quadrant, no temptations or planets that could derail them from their goal.

We also had, as stated, the god-ship/reset button. I'm lumping the two together because it feels like the two sides of the same coin. Voyager can be blown to pieces in one episode, but suffer little to any ill by the end of the show or the beginning of the next show. And the ship could do just about anything that other ships had failed to do just by sheer force of will.

I will concede that it had some great comedic moments, most of them revolving around the Doctor. One of my favorite episodes is "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy," which involves the Doctor's daydreams and the impact of having them exposed to the crew, which I think many a viewer could relate to the discomfort if their own daydreams were exposed.
 
Honestly, I remember being pretty excited by VOY's debut episode. They set up a lot of interesting dynamics, especially character dynamics, that unfortunately were never really followed through.

I remember when VOY started as well, and how everyone I watched it with thought it was a silly idea to begin with and just wanted to see how badly it would start off.

I also remember then starting to complain about 3 episodes in how they wanted more stories about the older aliens back in TNG and DS9 and they weren't interested in anything new.

Most of the DS9 watchers I knew also didn't like the show from the start, because it was running concurrently with DS9.

The incredibly constrained premise didn't help matters. They didn't have much to work with, especially compared to DS9's freedom.
 
No kidding. I was rather enjoying the perspective on what another Trek show could be. Or even any speculative fiction piece, in my opinion.

Voyager had some fun moments, but I think my biggest criticism is that it was too formulaic and played it too safe. There was never any risk of the crew staying in the Delta Quadrant, no temptations or planets that could derail them from their goal.

We also had, as stated, the god-ship/reset button. I'm lumping the two together because it feels like the two sides of the same coin. Voyager can be blown to pieces in one episode, but suffer little to any ill by the end of the show or the beginning of the next show. And the ship could do just about anything that other ships had failed to do just by sheer force of will.

I will concede that it had some great comedic moments, most of them revolving around the Doctor. One of my favorite episodes is "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy," which involves the Doctor's daydreams and the impact of having them exposed to the crew, which I think many a viewer could relate to the discomfort if their own daydreams were exposed.
Indeed, the Doctor was kind of brilliant, and a good part of that is thanks to Robert Picardo. I also loved Tuvok a lot - I thought he didn't need to be a Spock clone, after all, two human characters don't have to have the same personality either - but I think he didn't really get enough screen time. I remember thinking "where the hell is Tuvok?" during multiple episodes.

And the Chakotay/Seven pairing didn't really work for me either. Chakotay/Janeway it is, if anything. ;)

I would've also loved to see longer story arcs, that might have solved the god-ship/reset button thing on some level. Also, I don't have a problem with having hull plating repaired, photon torpedoes refilled, etc., but I could at least use some explanation. (See ENT 2x04 Dead Stop) There is no doubt the Delta Quadrant is full of usable matter and with the replicator technology, the possibilities are endless, but then... use it!

Though sometimes I feel that the staff indeed considered these points at the beginning of the series then systematically forgot about them.

Most of the DS9 watchers I knew also didn't like the show from the start, because it was running concurrently with DS9.
I was a kid and honestly, I didn't discriminate VOY because of DS9. When I first saw Voyager on TV, I was like, "more Star Trek, great!" :D
 
Most I watched with were "I don't like how the ship looks", or "It's just Gilligan's Island in space" or "The Woman Captain is too old and has a strange voice", etc.

No appreciation, but plenty of criticism.

Well...those of them who didn't write off the series as a failure after 20 minutes into "Caretaker".
 
Most I watched with were "I don't like how the ship looks", or "It's just Gilligan's Island in space" or "The Woman Captain is too old and has a strange voice", etc.

No appreciation, but plenty of criticism.
Well, I guess that's the mindless "Voyager hate", instead of criticism of what one doesn't like but appreciation for what one found entertaining or well-executed.
 
I was familiar with ST from TOS but loved TNG and found DS9 uninteresting was hopeful for VOY but didn't follow beyond half of S1 and got back in S4 and loved it! :D I enjoyed ENT too.
 
Most I watched with were "I don't like how the ship looks", or "It's just Gilligan's Island in space" or "The Woman Captain is too old and has a strange voice", etc.

No appreciation, but plenty of criticism.
Well, I guess that's the mindless "Voyager hate", instead of criticism of what one doesn't like but appreciation for what one found entertaining or well-executed.

Talk to Niners, that should clear some things up.
 
I remember when VOY started as well, and how everyone I watched it with thought it was a silly idea to begin with and just wanted to see how badly it would start off.
Ah, the people you watched it with...I didn't realize we were talking about such a huge slice of the population. ;)

The incredibly constrained premise didn't help matters. They didn't have much to work with, especially compared to DS9's freedom.
A whole quadrant of stories, nothing but potential for newness as far as the eye could see...I feel bad for the writers. :(

Talk to Niners, that should clear some things up.
You'll have to be more specific.
 
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