Spoilers VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread

[Charles Phipps]

But yes, I feel bad for Amanda Rogers loss.

The book opened with such a strong characterization of her and QJunior.

Great writing that.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Spoiler: Some more thoughts

While I only know a little about Afsarah Eden, I'll say that the character had a sad but poignant send-off. I felt she and Chakotay would have made an interesting set of sparring partners in the Janeway-less universe. Her existence as the "Anti-Q" is very Trekkian even as I got a private little chuckle out of the Garden of Eden-style birth for her.

I also appreciated her "uncles" relationship's depiction.

I wish she could have stayed onto the crew because she was quite well done here and the fact there was no "last minute Janeway rescue" like everyone expected her to pull off made the book a bittersweet but telling return.

The romance between Cambridge and Seven of Nine is also one which felt somewhat true to life as everyone's feelings was considerably more raw than usually get in books. No one is acting like it's true love and things go south very quickly.

Oh wait, maybe that's just my past relationships (before my marriage at least).

Really, what surprised me a lot was the depiction of Lady Q and the fact she had such a unique and vivid personality compared to her husband and son. I never really cared for the character before now, thinking of her as "just like Q only female" but watching her reactions really gave me a sense of a different person.

Anywho, thank you for writing this book.

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Hi Charles,

I'm glad you enjoyed many parts of the book. Regarding your specific issues...I've removed the spoiler tags because really, ten months later....

1. The summary killing of Amanda Rogers, when she and Q2 were so cute is TERRIBLE.

2. The destruction of the Cooperative is such a disappointment to me since I've been hoping to see them in the Novelverse for years.

3. Furthermore, they're just rushed off stage afterward. What the hey!

4. Why didn't the book reflect more on Janeway's resurrection versus the B-plot? Having her come to terms with everything that happened with the Borg in Destiny seems like it'd be a pretty big deal.

5. I'm also not pleased at Janeway reflecting on "Sacred Ground" having a scientific explanation when that was obviously just the Doctor grasping at straws.

Yes, Amanda's death was terrible. It was supposed to be terrible.

Re: the Cooperative....I didn't actually destroy them...The Caeliar absorbed them in Destiny...all but the 47 who chose to remain behind to care for the children. As to them being rushed off the stage...well, not every plot that is introduced is resolved entirely in every book I write. This happens for a lot of reasons...usually because I know where it's going eventually and I am as certain as it is possible to be that I will have the opportunity later to complete it. Sometimes, it's just not possible to do everything in one book. This is one of those times.

Re: Janeway coming to terms with the repercussions of her past decisions....well, again, that is a big process and one that would never have fit neatly into TET. We see the beginning, because that's all we have time for here. The next steps on that long journey begin in the next book.

Re: Sacred Ground...what Christopher said. Full stop.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Best,
Kirsten Beyer

 

[Scout101]

Maybe I'm looking at it from a different direction, but thought the Amanda death was terrible for other reasons. As in, we didn't even realize she had died until later, when it was explained what was going on, and then you just sorta figure out that she really DID die, and that was it, no further mention. Wasn't really any emotion or sense of loss, as you didn't realize that was IT until later on, and then she didn't come up again.

Felt like it needed SOMETHING more at the time to highlight the danger of what was going on. She just went to explore it, and end of story. Didn't need a long drawn out death scene, but didn't really have the impact on me that I felt it deserved.

A lot of who lived and who died coming out of the anomaly felt kinda abritrary in this one. Tough when you're dealing with Q and essentially magic, I guess, but lessens the impact of the deaths when you just give some a do-over at random by the end.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Yes, Amanda's death was terrible. It was supposed to be terrible.

You have no one but yourself to blame since I strongly disliked the character then you wrote her so I liked her.

That's terrible and shame on you.

Re: the Cooperative....I didn't actually destroy them...The Caeliar absorbed them in Destiny...all but the 47 who chose to remain behind to care for the children. As to them being rushed off the stage...well, not every plot that is introduced is resolved entirely in every book I write. This happens for a lot of reasons...usually because I know where it's going eventually and I am as certain as it is possible to be that I will have the opportunity later to complete it. Sometimes, it's just not possible to do everything in one book. This is one of those times.

I understand, I just felt that it was a lot of build-up and was privately hoping they still existed. Discovering they were the C-plot, so to speak, was sort of disappointing since I felt they'd be a big possible story and a tie-in to Destiny.

Thank you, anyway, for doing this book and I look forward to more of your works.

 

[PaulSimpson]

Having taken some time away from the novel-verse for a couple of years after leaving Star Trek Magazine, I'm working my way through, and started with Children of the Storm and The Eternal Tide, as I was partway through the latter when the proverbial hit the fan in the fall of 2011. Reviews of all the recent Trek novels will start showing up at Sci-Fi Bulletin with The Eternal Tide here now: http://scifibulletin.com/books/tie-in-fiction/star-trek-review-voyager-the-eternal-tide/

Paul

 

[JD]

I finished this up just a few minutes ago.
My review from Goodreads (I switched to it from Shelfari this week):
This book is another great installment by Kirsten Beyer. First of all I'm going to address the elephant in the room: Janeway's return. I know a lot of people hate resurrections in these kinds of stories, but I don't mind them if they are done well, and this one was IMO. It was done in a way that fit into what's already been established about the Star Trek Universe, and it also fit into the story being told very well.
I also liked the answers we were finally given about Eden in this story. The storyline with her has been a very interesting arc, although at first I did think it was a little similar to Odo's story from DS9. Luckily the answers we got were very different.
The conecition between Omega and the Q was really interesting. I'm a bit Q fan, and I really liked what Kirsten did with them here.
It was nice to get to revisit Riley Frasier and The Cooperative from the episode Unity. I've been really hoping that the books would revisit planets and races from the TV series and really liked the way that it was done here.
I got a kick out of seeing Icheb again. I always liked the character on the show, so I was very happy that we got to spend a few moments with him, and I'm glad that it sounds like he might be sticking around.
I voted Outstanding.

 

[Ktrek]

I finally got around reading this over the last week. I'm a little disappointed with the return of Janeway. I personally like the Eden character a lot more and was getting used to her in charge. For some reason the Chakotay/Janeway shipper relationship seems out of place and often "forced". I don't reject it totally as it made for compelling reading in the previous novels as Chakotay tries to deal with his grief and move on but in some ways Janeway's return almost negates all that Chakotay went through. I should add I'm not a big fan of hitting the reset button and I don't think reset can get any more obvious than this.

I must add that I have found Kirsten Beyer to be an excellent writer. Her style of prose really appeals to me and for the most part she captures the voices of the various characters quite well. I'm taking a break to read Greg Cox's new book (No Time Like The Past) and then will come back to Voyager and read Protectors. I really would love to see what Kirsten could do with The Next Generation or the Titan series. I hope that maybe after she finishes the trilogy Pocket Books would allow her to explore other areas of the Trek universe. If she's doomed to write Voyager for the rest of her Trek career she still will have a faithful reader in me as she writes some of the best Trek books ever written in my opinion even if they are Voyager (my least favorite TV series btw).

Kevin

 

[Enterpriserules]

I finally got around reading this over the last week. I'm a little disappointed with the return of Janeway. I personally like the Eden character a lot more and was getting used to her in charge. For some reason the Chakotay/Janeway shipper relationship seems out of place and often "forced". I don't reject it totally as it made for compelling reading in the previous novels as Chakotay tries to deal with his grief and move on but in some ways Janeway's return almost negates all that Chakotay went through. I should add I'm not a big fan of hitting the reset button and I don't think reset can get any more obvious than this.

I must add that I have found Kirsten Beyer to be an excellent writer. Her style of prose really appeals to me and for the most part she captures the voices of the various characters quite well. I'm taking a break to read Greg Cox's new book (No Time Like The Past) and then will come back to Voyager and read Protectors. I really would love to see what Kirsten could do with The Next Generation or the Titan series. I hope that maybe after she finishes the trilogy Pocket Books would allow her to explore other areas of the Trek universe. If she's doomed to write Voyager for the rest of her Trek career she still will have a faithful reader in me as she writes some of the best Trek books ever written in my opinion even if they are Voyager (my least favorite TV series btw).

Kevin

I don't think Kirsten thinks of writing Voyager as doomed. Having talk to her, I know she has an intense love for these characters, I think she'd be happy to write them as long as they will allow her too.

 

[DS9Continuing]

^^^ Also, the decision to bring Janeway back wasn't entirely Kirsten's idea. Well, it was, but only in response to something the editor wanted her to do. The entire thing is apparently not the way Kirsten had originally intended the story to go if not for the "suggestion" made by her editor, who is to be fair her boss, so she kinda had to. Given that, I think she did a good job with what was handed to her.

.

 

[Enterpriserules]

^ Personally I thought it was dang near perfect. But that is me

 

[Thrawn]

I finally got around reading this over the last week. I'm a little disappointed with the return of Janeway. I personally like the Eden character a lot more and was getting used to her in charge. For some reason the Chakotay/Janeway shipper relationship seems out of place and often "forced". I don't reject it totally as it made for compelling reading in the previous novels as Chakotay tries to deal with his grief and move on but in some ways Janeway's return almost negates all that Chakotay went through. I should add I'm not a big fan of hitting the reset button and I don't think reset can get any more obvious than this.

I think what Protectors does with the Chakotay/Janeway relationship will make you a lot happier than you might expect, based on the ending of Eternal Tide. Give this all a second chance to settle before you make up your mind...

 

[Galekarens]

I finally got around reading this over the last week. I'm a little disappointed with the return of Janeway. I personally like the Eden character a lot more and was getting used to her in charge. For some reason the Chakotay/Janeway shipper relationship seems out of place and often "forced". I don't reject it totally as it made for compelling reading in the previous novels as Chakotay tries to deal with his grief and move on but in some ways Janeway's return almost negates all that Chakotay went through. I should add I'm not a big fan of hitting the reset button and I don't think reset can get any more obvious than this.

I think what Protectors does with the Chakotay/Janeway relationship will make you a lot happier than you might expect, based on the ending of Eternal Tide. Give this all a second chance to settle before you make up your mind...

Well also maybe read what author Ms. Beyer fairly recently wrote about the J/C relationship (on 3/1/14 in the Protectors Review thread in this forum) before perhaps thinking what happens in Protectors is the last word (for good or ill) on that subject, just fyi. PS link to page noted writings are on: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=235960&page=12

 

[Thrawn]

I wasn't suggesting it was the final word on the subject. Believe me, I've read voraciously everything she's written on here about Protectors! Protectors is still nonetheless of a markedly different flavor than the end of Eternal Tide.

 

[Ktrek]

I think what Protectors does with the Chakotay/Janeway relationship will make you a lot happier than you might expect, based on the ending of Eternal Tide. Give this all a second chance to settle before you make up your mind...

I'll take your word for it Thrawn. I trust your judgment. Like I said I intend to read Protectors as soon as I finish Greg Cox's latest, but it might get pushed back until I read the latest Christopher's Enterprise novel as it's due in my mail box tomorrow. In any case it will be soon and I'll let you know what I think about the Chakotay/Janeway relationship.

And Enterpriserules...perhaps "doomed" was too strong a word. I would be happy to read whatever she writes but I just would like to see what she could do elsewhere in the Trek universe. If she would be happy and fulfilled to write only for Voyager then that's what she should do.

Kevin

 

[Enterpriserules]

^ You should listen to her interview with us on Literary Treks about TET, it is the second episode we did. We really got to dive into the book and her thought process behind it.

 

[Ktrek]

^ I will certainly do that Matt but not until I have read Protectors because I want to avoid any spoilers. Thanks for the tip!

Kevin

 

[Enterpriserules]

^ There are no spoilers for Protectors in TET episode, so no worries there. We did have her back for Protectors so enjoy that one as well

 

[Enterprise1701]

Kirsten, when you included Amanda Rogers and Q Junior in this story, did you think that "The Q and the Grey" purported Q Junior as a "true" child of the Q Continuum because Amanda Rogers was conceived by Q in human form?

 

[Kirsten Beyer]

Kirsten, when you included Amanda Rogers and Q Junior in this story, did you think that "The Q and the Grey" purported Q Junior as a "true" child of the Q Continuum because Amanda Rogers was conceived by Q in human form?

Yes. Obviously we all know how Amanda turned out. And I remember re-watching True Q in my prep for TET and thinking it really could have gone either way for her. And that Q was kind of a scary asshole in that episode. But she was clearly born of human parents, even if they had once been Q. Q powers being what they are (or what we can understand them to be) her parents must have had the ability to somehow turn off their Q-ness. She wasn't a child of the Continuum. If she was...why all the drama about figuring out of she was Q? Even Q didn't know at the beginning of that episode- or so we are led to believe.

Junior, on the other hand, was conceived in the Continuum, by two Q and with the purpose of somehow saving the Continuum. I don't think the writers of Q and Grey forgot about Amanda. I think there is a substantial difference between the two of them. In my mind, Amanda could never have done what Junior did in restoring the balance between Q and Omega. Yes, she is clearly a Q. But her parentage makes her different from Junior.


Merry Christmas!

xo
KMFB