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VOY did a GREAT job with the Borg

D

david g

Commodore
Commodore
One of the commonplaces of VOY criticism is that they denatured and defanged the Borg. Perhaps the Borg were overused; perhaps they became less scary. But for one thing, those were inevitable results as the race became more familiar. Second, the fascination of VOY's treatment of the Borg lies in precisely its demystification of them. I think we learned a great deal about the species and saw them in new ways. Overall, VOY did a great job with the Borg.

I think so many ingenious new themes concerning the Borg emerged on VOY: the quest for perfection, the Borg virtual reality, their ability to be defeated by a species "more malevolent than their own," their obsession with colonizing humanity, their surprising ability to "negotiate" when necessary...

I think VOY's interpretation of the Borg was anthropological in spirit, giving us an unprecedented glimpse into their culture (and Dark Frontier is a critique of scientific arrogance that such a culture could be observed without consequences). The Borg, esp in UMZ and Endgame, also lent the series a powerful fairy tale aspect, a kind of cyborg myth.

Anyone else a big VOY Borg fan?
 
When it comes to the Borg, TNG in my opinion handled them the best. VOY also did a pretty good job.

Scorpion is my favorite VOY episode(s). They were used in a different way and not a rehash of BoBW. I liked the idea of a Borg cast member. I didn't much care for Jeri's overmotional performance in Scorpion II however. She should have modeled it on Patrick Stewart's Locutus.

Dark Frontier wasn't as solid as Scorpion but was a fun two hour telefilm that tied together several loose threads regarding the Hansens and I liked the approach of them being researchers.

At first the fact that they were aware of the Borg before "Q Who?" seemed like a major gaffe but upon further reflection it did make sense. I loved seeing the Borg unicomplex and an assimilation of an entire species. I was actually hoping to learn more about the enigma known as the Borg Queen.

DF managed to shed some further light on her, moreso than FC but at the end of the day her origin and exactly what she was continued to be nebulous and unsatisfactory.

The series managed to do a fairly good job in maintaining the Borg's aura of invincibility and terror up until the last few minutes of Dark Frontier. But the fact that the Delta Flyer equipped with Hansen anti-Borg technology that the Collective possessed knowledge of and the way Janeway just waltzed into the Queen's chamber took a lot of that away from them.

Unimatrix Zero is an underrated episode, at least Part I. It had a good idea and at the time I felt it could provide VOY an arc or a mini-arc for its final season. It really could have brought the Collective down once and for all in a clever way. Unfortunately Part II squandered it. We didn't see the Borg in full force again until Endgame where by that point what the Queen is was just as confusing as before. She is interested in Seven and hasn't assimilated VOY because she didn't want to hurt Seven. I don't care for that. Also here the Borg were used for action.

VOY really could have explored the Queen more. Is she an emergent figure? Are they different queens? Was she always a part of the Collective? What is her origin?

So in total I was pretty satisfied with their use. Were they as badass as on TNG? No but the episodes they were showcased in were usually entertaining.
 
The Borg really were the perfect nemesis for Voyager.

I like how Janeway evolves from being shit-scared of them, to holding her own against them, to ultimately beating them at their own game and taking them down for good (?). Not a very Federation solution I'll grant you, but to steal a quote from a very different show, "it's easy to be a saint in paradise." :thumbsup:

IMHO, keeping Voyager alive did result in a slight demystification and emaciation of the Borg - as Voyager got more powerful, the Borg seemed less ominous and impermeable. But in some way or another the same is true for all the great villains of SciFi. Sauron, the Shadows, the Cylons, the First, the Empire, etc.

Not that that's any excuse, but at least the Borg are in good company.
 
I liked certain aspects of Borg culture which were explored, most specifically the fact how Species 8472 couldn't be assimilated and thus the Borg couldn't beat them.

Still, I felt using them season after season in Voyager, especially after Kes "threw them clear of Borg space" in Ep402, was worse than making them appear only six times in TNG, and even then the last two episodes they didn't really feature 'true' Borg.

The Borg children were dumb too.
 
While I really didn't like the idea of the Borg children either, I basically liked the use of the Borg in Voyager. As for how they were different in VOY compared to TNG, I always rationalized it that the more species they assimilated, more changes would be brought into the collective. This could include the costume changes introduced in FC, or even their motivation of being more interested in the lifeforms than the technology, as was said in Q Who.
Nice to read something positive on the subject for a change.
 
sbk1234 said:
As for how they were different in VOY compared to TNG, I always rationalized it that the more species they assimilated, more changes would be brought into the collective. This could include the costume changes introduced in FC,
Click to expand...
Except Dark Frontier retconned the new costumes to a point before "Q Who" and FC had the flashback of Locutus with the updated look.
or even their motivation of being more interested in the lifeforms than the technology, as was said in Q Who.
Click to expand...
Same thing. Dark Frontier pretty much covered that by retconning it as always being a part of the Borg's behavior. And really that makes more sense given that it was just "Q Who?" that implied that they were only interested in technology.
 
I didn't have too much of a problem with how the Borg were portrayed in Voyager. I liked getting to see them as much as we did although there were some scenes that made them appear weak.
 
The Borg on Voyager were treated exactly as they needed to be handled to make the series exceptional and to show that not only were the Borg evolving and changing but Voyager and Starfleet themselves were learning and adapting to what once seamed unbeatable foes.

Having the Borg hammer through Starfleet ship after Starfleet ship would be a turnoff. Just as Starfleet not being able to tell their arse from a hole in the ground in regards to the Borg would be.

Nicely done.
 
Voyager did a good job with them up to maybe Dark Frontier. Than they started to be overused. There were some good shows with them afterwards, but there was only so much about the borg they could have explored and then it became comical.
 
two words that prove the OP wrong: Unimatrix Zero

the Borg were supposed to be the implacable & unstoppable foe. Janeway said it herself when referring to a log of Picard's. by the end she was practically hunting down fleets of cubes in her one little ship.

the crit is a legitimate one - Voyager defanged the Borg.
 
I agree with you, david, but I'm also glad that we don't know everything about the origins of the Borg. It's interesting to speculate how they came into existence (radiated Duracell bunny batteries?) and TMI would mess with their myth.
 
I loved the Borg on Voyager.

I don't feel they got defanged at all, honestly. After you encounter any enemy more than once you're going to gather intelligence on them, the more you learn the better you can defend yourself against them. If you couldn't, there wouldn't be any advanced civilzation at all in the Delta Quaderant or in any of the 4 quaderants the Borg have been too. It happened with the Klingons, Romulans & even the Dominion.

Plus Voyager the ship is nearly 12 years more advanced than the Enterprise-D or any of the ships at WOLF 359. Nobody but nobody that survives after an attack like that doesn't rethink their defences capabilities and improve their armor or vessel design. The Defiant & Voyager were created because Q was right, we weren't ready to face the hostile things that await us in the galaxy.

I was also pleased to learn on Voyager how the Borg function & the intricate workings of them.
 
The only problem I see is that the borg were way overdone during the series. Other than that what they showed seemed to be done well.
 
They used the Borg too often on VOY, but I liked the fact that (as much as I love Picard and TNG) Janeway had the balls, whupass, whatever to finally (?) rid the Federation of the Borg.

Yes, I know the eps with Hugh on TNG made some good points, but I agreed with Janeway and her Mace Windoo (sp) attitude of "I'm going to end this NOW!"
 
exodus said:
I loved the Borg on Voyager.

I don't feel they got defanged at all, honestly. After you encounter any enemy more than once you're going to gather intelligence on them, the more you learn the better you can defend yourself against them. If you couldn't, there wouldn't be any advanced civilzation at all in the Delta Quaderant or in any of the 4 quaderants the Borg have been too. It happened with the Klingons, Romulans & even the Dominion.

Plus Voyager the ship is nearly 12 years more advanced than the Enterprise-D or any of the ships at WOLF 359. Nobody but nobody that survives after an attack like that doesn't rethink their defences capabilities and improve their armor or vessel design. The Defiant & Voyager were created because Q was right, we weren't ready to face the hostile things that await us in the galaxy.

I was also pleased to learn on Voyager how the Borg function & the intricate workings of them.
Click to expand...
First its 8 years. (2371 and 2363)
Second. Woooo....eight years. The galaxy class got retrofit plenty. A cruiser launched in 2000 retrofit to be modern in 2008 and one today are absolutely idential. A cruiser from 2000 (ENT-D) would obliterate a frigate built in 2008 (VOY), even without upgrades and retrofits.
Third the Borg have adapted to the humans and developed their tech just as much, if not more.
Fourth, going from a single cube facing off agianst a fleet and winning to a small scout ship hunting down cubes is most definitely not defanging the borg. Its castrating them.
Fifth, Voyager was cut off from supplies, was undermanned, hadn't had maintaince or replacement parts, was cut off from advances in technology, and didn't know the terrain.
 
Voyager had an ex Borg Drone as a crewmember for 4 years.
If anyone could help Voyager against the Borg, it was 7 of 9.
 
Tralis said:
exodus said:
I loved the Borg on Voyager.

I don't feel they got defanged at all, honestly. After you encounter any enemy more than once you're going to gather intelligence on them, the more you learn the better you can defend yourself against them. If you couldn't, there wouldn't be any advanced civilzation at all in the Delta Quaderant or in any of the 4 quaderants the Borg have been too. It happened with the Klingons, Romulans & even the Dominion.

Plus Voyager the ship is nearly 12 years more advanced than the Enterprise-D or any of the ships at WOLF 359. Nobody but nobody that survives after an attack like that doesn't rethink their defences capabilities and improve their armor or vessel design. The Defiant & Voyager were created because Q was right, we weren't ready to face the hostile things that await us in the galaxy.

I was also pleased to learn on Voyager how the Borg function & the intricate workings of them.
Click to expand...
First its 8 years. (2371 and 2363)
Second. Woooo....eight years. The galaxy class got retrofit plenty. A cruiser launched in 2000 retrofit to be modern in 2008 and one today are absolutely idential. A cruiser from 2000 (ENT-D) would obliterate a frigate built in 2008 (VOY), even without upgrades and retrofits.
Third the Borg have adapted to the humans and developed their tech just as much, if not more.
Fourth, going from a single cube facing off agianst a fleet and winning to a small scout ship hunting down cubes is most definitely not defanging the borg. Its castrating them.
Fifth, Voyager was cut off from supplies, was undermanned, hadn't had maintaince or replacement parts, was cut off from advances in technology, and didn't know the terrain.
Click to expand...
If technology in the real world advances every 5 years or less, you mean to tell me with thousands of worlds with the Federation(and growing) they couldn't make a better ship in 8 years? Don't you think the US military would be developing better defensive systems after 9/11?

Voyager didn't need replacement parts, replicators recycle EVERYTHING on a molecular level.(explained in every Trek show since TNG)

Voyager never destroyed any cubes, they did hit and run. T Tactical advantage to the Borg came thanks to Seven of Nine, combined with aquiring the Hanson's recorded information(Raven & Dark Frontier) & well as tactical information aquired during the very start of "Dark Frontier". If someone can't get around an adversary after recieving all that information, then they're pretty stupid.

Voyager had Neelix who was their man in charge of trade & bartering. Thru him & his skills they navigated the terran. Why do you think Janeway made him Ambassidor for Voyager?(Macrocosm)

What Voyager went thru is no differant than the early pinoneers that traveled across country in the US by wagon train and used a Native American as their guide and negotiator.
 
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