Violent Protests in Baltimore

[Trekker4747]

Nobody is telling them they can't enjoy their lives. Just that they can't enjoy their lives on the taxpayers money

Why? Any good reasons why? In what way does it impact you? Does it really matter what a poor person does with that 2-cents that comes out of your check? Sure from 1,000 people in the community that 2-cents becomes, gasp, $20! He might dare to go to the store and buy a couple of marked-down close-dated steaks!

And I doubt 2-cents is how much he's getting from everyone's checks. Probably more like 2-tenths of a cent.

So, why? Why get so petty over an insignificant amount of money? As long as they're not buying beer and hookers what difference does it make what they eat?

 

[Tiger Devil Dog]

I don't think they should be told what they can and cannot do with the money. I can understand limiting/prohibiting vice items (alcohol, tobacco products) but I don't think types of food items should be limited or controlled. Nor do I think things like Brownback controls recently passed are right, things like not using public pools or using other entertainment venues. They should still be allowed to enjoy their lives.

Hard to do that when you're eating hamburger helper, store-brand canned vegetables and longing for a dip in a cool pool on a hot, summer, day.

It's a few cents out of my check, what do I care what a person on benefits does with it?

Nobody is telling them they can't enjoy their lives. Just that they can't enjoy their lives on the taxpayers money

Why not? There are aspects of your life you enjoy because of taxpayer money. It is telling what is in a person's heart when they begrudgingly hand a morsel of food to a person in need, while concurrently holding the opinion that it would be better that they choke it down, lest they enjoy it.

That's a cute quote that doesn't actually argue any point other than to say I have an evil heart. Very few in this thread have actually tried to debate the issues with me. I have been called a liar and an idiot and heartless.

 

[Tiger Devil Dog]

Nobody is telling them they can't enjoy their lives. Just that they can't enjoy their lives on the taxpayers money

Why? Any good reasons why? In what way does it impact you? Does it really matter what a poor person does with that 2-cents that comes out of your check? Sure from 1,000 people in the community that 2-cents becomes, gasp, $20! He might dare to go to the store and buy a couple of marked-down close-dated steaks!

And I doubt 2-cents is how much he's getting from everyone's checks. Probably more like 2-tenths of a cent.

So, why? Why get so petty over an insignificant amount of money? As long as they're not buying beer and hookers what difference does it make what they eat?

Why? Because if they weren't spending that money on luxury items then instead of having 2 cents out if every dollar I earn taken I could only have 1 cent taken. I don't want anyone to starve or be homeless but I don't work to have my money taken from me so that other people can use it to go to the movies. I go to work so I can take my kids to the movies.

 

[Amaris]

Nobody is telling them they can't enjoy their lives. Just that they can't enjoy their lives on the taxpayers money

Why not? There are aspects of your life you enjoy because of taxpayer money. It is telling what is in a person's heart when they begrudgingly hand a morsel of food to a person in need, while concurrently holding the opinion that it would be better that they choke it down, lest they enjoy it.

That's a cute quote that doesn't actually argue any point other than to say I have an evil heart. Very few in this thread have actually tried to debate the issues with me. I have been called a liar and an idiot and heartless.

It's not a "cute quote". You actively champion the idea that poor people on assistance should be miserable. Oh my god, that little girl just had her first hot meal in a week, and she's smiling. Be one of those who would smack that smile off of her face because she didn't earn it. Berate her mother and father because they lost the ability to provide for their children. The ulcers, and the stress, and the constant worry about feeding and clothing their children isn't enough punishment, no. You make them count every. last. red. cent., and lord it over them until they break down because they're lazy people who only want to sponge off of you. Make them pay, Dog. Show them where they stand next to you.

 

[Tiger Devil Dog]

Why not? There are aspects of your life you enjoy because of taxpayer money. It is telling what is in a person's heart when they begrudgingly hand a morsel of food to a person in need, while concurrently holding the opinion that it would be better that they choke it down, lest they enjoy it.

That's a cute quote that doesn't actually argue any point other than to say I have an evil heart. Very few in this thread have actually tried to debate the issues with me. I have been called a liar and an idiot and heartless.

It's not a "cute quote". You actively champion the idea that poor people on assistance should be miserable. Oh my god, that little girl just had her first hot meal in a week, and she's smiling. Be one of those who would smack that smile off of her face because she didn't earn it.

I don't think they should be miserable. I want them to all be as happy as they possibly can be. I truly do. I just don't want my tax dollars paying for it. And I challenge you to find any child in this country that has gone a week without a hot meal.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

God help your smug ass if you ever lose your job.

Knock off the flaming, Bill, or you'll receive an infraction.

That's a cute quote that doesn't actually argue any point other than to say I have an evil heart. Very few in this thread have actually tried to debate the issues with me.

Maybe because you've tried to introduce every issue you have with black people and the poor and the government under the sun into this thread. I get that these other issue can be related to the Baltimore protests, but let's try and keep things focused on the primary topic of the thread instead of your general political beliefs.

 

[BillJ]

Nobody is telling them they can't enjoy their lives. Just that they can't enjoy their lives on the taxpayers money

Why? Any good reasons why? In what way does it impact you? Does it really matter what a poor person does with that 2-cents that comes out of your check? Sure from 1,000 people in the community that 2-cents becomes, gasp, $20! He might dare to go to the store and buy a couple of marked-down close-dated steaks!

And I doubt 2-cents is how much he's getting from everyone's checks. Probably more like 2-tenths of a cent.

So, why? Why get so petty over an insignificant amount of money? As long as they're not buying beer and hookers what difference does it make what they eat?

Why? Because if they weren't spending that money on luxury items then instead of having 2 cents out if every dollar I earn taken I could only have 1 cent taken. I don't want anyone to starve or be homeless but I don't work to have my money taken from me so that other people can use it to go to the movies. I go to work so I can take my kids to the movies.

If that penny is keeping you from taking your kids to the movies, then you might want to get off the internet and go get a second job.

 

[Amaris]

That's a cute quote that doesn't actually argue any point other than to say I have an evil heart. Very few in this thread have actually tried to debate the issues with me. I have been called a liar and an idiot and heartless.

It's not a "cute quote". You actively champion the idea that poor people on assistance should be miserable. Oh my god, that little girl just had her first hot meal in a week, and she's smiling. Be one of those who would smack that smile off of her face because she didn't earn it.

I don't think they should be miserable. I want them to all be as happy as they possibly can be. I truly do. I just don't want my tax dollars paying for it. And I challenge you to find any child in this country that has gone a week without a hot meal.

Me.

When I was a child, I was homeless, and not because my parents were lazy. Quite the contrary, my father was a hard working man, and my mother a hard working woman, but there simply wasn't enough work. We had no family who would help us. We lived in a car, and then when that went, we lived in a tent in the backyard of a family member's house. I went several days without food at all, let alone a hot meal, and you can goddamn guarantee that still goes on today for other children. How many children go to school hungry? How many require school assistance to eat that one meal a day? You don't know, but by god you want them accountable for it, and god help them if they enjoy it.

Here's a place to start learning: http://www.nokidhungry.org/problem/hunger-facts

Now, let's please get back to the topic of what you think about regarding these disenfranchised black people.

 

[Tiger Devil Dog]

God help your smug ass if you ever lose your job.

Knock off the flaming, Bill, or you'll receive an infraction.

That's a cute quote that doesn't actually argue any point other than to say I have an evil heart. Very few in this thread have actually tried to debate the issues with me.

Maybe because you've tried to introduce every issue you have with black people and the poor and the government under the sun into this thread. I get that these other issue can be related to the Baltimore protests, but let's try and keep things focused on the primary topic of the thread.

Understood. Honestly I'm just replying to comments to me. I brought up the war on poverty and the war on drugs as impetus for the police brutality and the debate led to where we are know. I apologize for the thread getting off topic.

 

[Trekker4747]

Why? Because if they weren't spending that money on luxury items then instead of having 2 cents out if every dollar I earn taken I could only have 1 cent taken. I don't want anyone to starve or be homeless but I don't work to have my money taken from me so that other people can use it to go to the movies. I go to work so I can take my kids to the movies.

Then you're not fit to live in a society. Please liquidate your assets and move to a remote cabin in the woods in live off the land.

That 1-cent is nothing to you. Literally nothing. Once cent out of every check over the course of the year gets you 52-cents. Congratulations. You can buy one extra postage stamp this year and have some left-over.

That 1-cent, taken from everyone in the community can help a poor person to have a slightly more comfortable life. If they want to go see a movie -and it's not like they're going to the Dinner-and-a-Movie show on Friday night, more likely the matinée in the middle of the week- then that's great. They get to have a couple hours of entertainment and happiness, maybe with a friend or family member, before they have to go back to dreariness that is their daily life.

That postage-stamp isn't worth it to me so that a poor person can be denied a moment of feeling like life is worth living.

I e-pay my bills anyway.

And I challenge you to find any child in this country that has gone a week without a hot meal.

Really? Really?! You think every child in this country gets a hot meal consistently throughout the week instead of maybe -at most- living off sandwiches and dry cereal? *Every* child? Consider there 10s of millions children in our country. I think it's safe to assume at least one of them has gone a week -or more- without a hot meal due to living conditions (i.e. not because their parents are raw-food vegans.) Hell, I remember local news stories where people were complaining about the cost of providing children with hot breakfasts before school starts, argument being for poorer areas it's the only chance some children have at a good, hot, meal every day.

So, yeah, I don't need to find a specific child and pint you to him/her. Logic tells me that somewhere in this country a child is living off bologna sandwiches and store-brand Total.

 

[Tiger Devil Dog]

I would love to keep this debate going but the moderator has asked that we keep this thread on topic.

 

[Trekker4747]

I would love to keep this debate going but the moderator has asked that we keep this thread on topic.

Fine and understood.

You're welcome to come HERE and start a thread on the topic. More controversial topics are often discussed there. I'm *really* interested to here more on your social views.

 

[Tiger Devil Dog]

It wouldn't let me access the link

 

[BillJ]

It wouldn't let me access the link

You have to go into your user profile and access it under 'Public Groups' I believe. It's called 'The Neutral Zone'.

 

[Tiger Devil Dog]

It wouldn't let me access the link

You have to go into your user profile and access it under 'Public Groups' I believe. It's called 'The Neutral Zone'.

Thanks!

 

[Melakon]

Earning enough money that you consider yourself comfortable, and having so little money that you're not, are two different worlds and I've been in both of them. It's easy to criticize the poor when you're comfortable, and I was guilty of it a few times. But even these days, I try to help other people out with what little money I have. My only real luxury right now is this computer and being able to afford a cheap apartment without taking any other assistance.

 

[Trekker4747]

It wouldn't let me access the link

Click on "User CP" in the bar on top.
Menu on left of screen, select "Group Memberships" under the "Networking" heading.
There should be a radial button, check box, or something next to "The Neutral Zone" to allow you to join the group.

(Thought it was automatic and opt-out, rather than opt-in)

If you cannot you may not have enough posts/time here yet not sure where that line starts.

 

[Timby]

That's okay. You don't have to believe me. It's the truth though. I was let go due to a problem with alcoholism. I don't blame anyone but myself. I managed to get myself sober and find new employment to provide for myself and my family.

I've been in recovery for seven years. I have met probably a thousand-plus people in the rooms of AA all over the country -- from rural Wisconsin to the heart of Las Vegas to the shining metropolis of Paducah, Kentucky, to Atlanta, to New York, to Chicago, to San Francisco, to inner-city Baltimore -- during that time. And not a single one has ever espoused the bootstraps, "enjoy life but not on other people's money," self-centered attitude you've been shouting about over the last 36 hours. Because none of those rooms would exist without people tossing in a buck or two or ten at every meeting to keep the place going and to keep it available for those who need it and those who might decide they need it. Because the philosophy of AA is that when anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA always to be there.

And that's the heart of the problem in Baltimore, which is once again a city I love dearly, miss dearly, wept for yesterday and wept for again this morning when I looked on a map and saw looting and fires happening literally a block away from my old house, and a break-in at a shop that was on my walk home from work when I lived there.

The problem in Baltimore is that the assistance, the support, the service and the protection that a historically oppressed subset of the population so desperately needs is not there for them, and even more importantly, there are people in power arguing that it should not be there for them.

Baltimore burned last night because generations of systemic racism finally reached a boiling point. The logical thing to do in response would be to take a step back, examine the situation holistically and ask ourselves, "How the fuck did it get to this point?" But instead, we're calling people thugs and hoodlums and worse, instead of taking five seconds to listen to their pain, to understand their pain, to even start to try to comprehend all of the factors that have gone into building and simmering this tension for so, so many years.

And that's why I will likely weep for Baltimore again after I get home from work in an hour and a half. And I will continue to do so until the people in power -- government, media, the elite -- stop trying to find people to blame for this situation and stop trying to make people afraid of a subset of their fellow Americans and start trying to actually understand why the fuck this is happening.

 

[BillJ]

That's okay. You don't have to believe me. It's the truth though. I was let go due to a problem with alcoholism. I don't blame anyone but myself. I managed to get myself sober and find new employment to provide for myself and my family.

I've been in recovery for seven years. I have met probably a thousand-plus people in the rooms of AA all over the country -- from rural Wisconsin to the heart of Las Vegas to the shining metropolis of Paducah, Kentucky, to Atlanta, to New York, to Chicago, to San Francisco, to inner-city Baltimore -- during that time. And not a single one has ever espoused the bootstraps, "enjoy life but not on other people's money," self-centered attitude you've been shouting about over the last 36 hours. Because none of those rooms would exist without people tossing in a buck or two or ten at every meeting to keep the place going and to keep it available for those who need it and those who might decide they need it. Because the philosophy of AA is that when anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want the hand of AA always to be there.

And that's the heart of the problem in Baltimore, which is once again a city I love dearly, miss dearly, wept for yesterday and wept for again this morning when I looked on a map and saw looting and fires happening literally a block away from my old house, and a break-in at a shop that was on my walk home from work when I lived there.

The problem in Baltimore is that the assistance, the support, the service and the protection that a historically oppressed subset of the population so desperately needs is not there for them, and even more importantly, there are people in power arguing that it should not be there for them.

Baltimore burned last night because generations of systemic racism finally reached a boiling point. The logical thing to do in response would be to take a step back, examine the situation holistically and ask ourselves, "How the fuck did it get to this point?" But instead, we're calling people thugs and hoodlums and worse, instead of taking five seconds to listen to their pain, to understand their pain, to even start to try to comprehend all of the factors that have gone into building and simmering this tension for so, so many years.

And that's why I will likely weep for Baltimore again after I get home from work in an hour and a half. And I will continue to do so until the people in power -- government, media, the elite -- stop trying to find people to blame for this situation and stop trying to make people afraid of a subset of their fellow Americans and start trying to actually understand why the fuck this is happening.

This. Beautifully stated.

 

[Trekker4747]

...

Well said, Timby.