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Violent Protests in Baltimore

Is the violence by Baltimore Protestors Justified?


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I'm in full support of body cameras for police, but that is really only treating the symptoms and not the disease. We need to decriminalization drugs for one and perhaps even more important. This country needs to take a long look at how it recruits, screens, and trains it's police officers. Far too many come from a military background and have a propensity to treat everyone as an "enemy" rather than fellow citizens.
 
For those pointing to the use of cameras as a major component of police reform, let's not forget that Eric Garner's confrontation with police was caught on camera and nothing happened. The officers involved all but choked him to death and not a single charge was filed. Don't kid yourselves: catching cops doing bad things on camera may bring the public outrage, but it won't necessarily bring legal consequences.

ETA: Tamir Rice offers another example. He was killed five months ago, on video, by an officer with a very troubled history (to say the least.) No charges.
 
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Yeah, it's not like the fact that there's been public outrage over Eric Garner and Tamir Rice and that we know who they are and what happened to them might be a significant driver in any campaigns for police reform.
 
The police always say that if you're a good guy you have nothing to hide and should be up front with them.

I guess they don't like doing it in reverse.

So that means they're not the good guy.
 
Ubiquitous surveillance is coming whether it is done by the state or private parties. One of these days, Google (or someone) will give you realtime eyes and ears in every public place. Imagine Street View being updated 60 times a second. It's just a matter of technology developing to the point where it's economical.
 
Baltimore PD is saying Mosby overreached in her charges, which isn't surprising. Time will tell, I guess. I hope she knows what she's doing.
 
Baltimore PD is saying Mosby overreached in her charges, which isn't surprising. Time will tell, I guess. I hope she knows what she's doing.

She moved very quickly and laid out all of the details of her case in a public speech. It was unusual. How long did it take to file charges against Scott Peterson, Drew Peterson, or many other high profile cases where some of the facts were ambiguous?
 
Baltimore PD is saying Mosby overreached in her charges, which isn't surprising. Time will tell, I guess. I hope she knows what she's doing.

She moved very quickly and laid out all of the details of her case in a public speech. It was unusual. How long did it take to file charges against Scott Peterson, Drew Peterson, or many other high profile cases where some of the facts were ambiguous?

How long does it take Joe Schmo to get charged with murder after it happens?
 
Baltimore PD is saying Mosby overreached in her charges, which isn't surprising. Time will tell, I guess. I hope she knows what she's doing.

She moved very quickly and laid out all of the details of her case in a public speech. It was unusual. How long did it take to file charges against Scott Peterson, Drew Peterson, or many other high profile cases where some of the facts were ambiguous?

How long does it take Joe Schmo to get charged with murder after it happens?

It can vary case by case. How many unsolved murders do we have in the U.S.?
 
Anyone see the new FBI report that says murders of police are up 58% so far this year, and ambush murders of police are up 200%?
 
Anyone see the new FBI report that says murders of police are up 58% so far this year, and ambush murders of police are up 200%?

The numbers were unusually low the last few years, and have regressed to the mean over the last few months. Being a police officer is not now unusually dangerous by historical standards. Note that we are talking about statistics of small numbers, so there is a lot of random year-to-year variation.

Number of LEOs fatally shot each year:


Code:
2005 60
2006 54
2007 70
2008 41
2009 50
2010 60
2011 73
2012 50
2013 33
2014 48

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/causes.html
 
Pakistan, Russia, China and Turkey were among the most vociferous of the member states, with Russia informing the U.S. that "the human rights situation in the country has seriously deteriorated recently" before presenting seven recommendations to the U.S. delegation.

Now that's funny.
 
Yep, the bastards love to beat on us. That said, isn't it a shame that we hand them the hammer?
 
Pakistan, Russia, China and Turkey were among the most vociferous of the member states, with Russia informing the U.S. that "the human rights situation in the country has seriously deteriorated recently" before presenting seven recommendations to the U.S. delegation.
Now that's funny.

Wow. Not quite as sadly hilarious as Qadaffi-era Libya on the Human Rights Council, but it brings a smile.

Our shit stinks for sure and we have our own messes to clean up, but a couple of those countries have governments and human rights records that are just one step shy of being full-blown, industrial-strength fertilizer.
 
IMO there are clear parallels in China between our police and the Chinese city police (the Chengguan) which are also a result of the expanded security apparatus of the previous administration. It's just due to inferior training and equipment in that situation, the situation is further along and you have people killing chengguan.
 
She moved very quickly and laid out all of the details of her case in a public speech. It was unusual. How long did it take to file charges against Scott Peterson, Drew Peterson, or many other high profile cases where some of the facts were ambiguous?

How long does it take Joe Schmo to get charged with murder after it happens?

It can vary case by case. How many unsolved murders do we have in the U.S.?

Very few that are as well documented as this one.
 
"I'm not surprised that the world's eyes are focused on police issues in the U.S.,"

Right, because in Russia and China the guy who got it on camera is tracked down and his family imprisoned.

It's kind of ironic to have a poll with two possible options. This is an incredibly complex issue and answering either 'Yes' or 'No' feels completely wrong.

My feelings about violent protest are contextual. The entire premise of America is that everybody is equal and we don't need violence because we have populist political processes in place that allow anybody to get justice regardless of their social status. When America lives up to that premise, violence is absolutely not acceptable, but it should be blatantly obvious to everybody that it does not live up to that premise. You can point to successful peaceful political changes in the past, but Tibet is still part of China. And it's not just black people who don't have access to justice because of their social status, it's poor people, or anyone without generational wealth. Peaceful protests might make a politician look bad but it won't motivate the wealthy people behind the politician to hand over fewer dollars.

But, that also doesn't mean every time a person or group is denied justice they're morally justified in going on a looting spree. Moral judgments in this area are very grey and incredibly contextual. And you would hope political actions taken surgically target only the things causing harm and keep any kind of violence to an absolute necessary minimum.

So I'm just going to say, I dunno if it's justified or not. I just dunno. I hope we get the reform and the justice that we need.
 
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