Violent Protests in Baltimore

[fonzob1]

That's not what disabuse means.

I absolutely know what disabuse means. I interpreted your comment about it backfiring to suggest that my comment was intended to be abusive.

And no, implying that people are a) advocating violence when they aren't, b) the products of failed parenting, and c) juvenile is not a valid question.

I was responding to Tora Ziyal's comments. Review the poll and please feel free to vote in it.

 

[Amaris]

Gandhi had a worse situation. His obstacles involved imperialism and people, in greater numbers, being outright slaughtered.

Doesn't matter. It's a completely different time, location, and context, and it's simplistic thinking to believe that what worked in one place means it will work the same everywhere else.

What about facing imminent death or injury from protestors?

So you're comparing police doing their jobs to civilians being victimized by corrupt and racist police?

So, are you justifying the violence?

That's a stupid response, but unfortunately always one that comes up in these discussions.

No, or I wouldn't have just said in the part you quoted that peaceful protest would be ideal. I just empathize with the frustration, fear, and desperation that gives rise to violence, and don't think simplistic lectures of the sort you were saying are very realistic.

Though that being said, the Baltimore PD did exactly what you asked, and look what happened.

You weren't talking about this situation specifically. You were justifying the use of armored vehicles and military hardware in general, and my response was to that.

For some reason, there are people who get it in their heads that empathy and understanding equals acceptance and approval. There's this concept in between, where one can empathize without endorsing, that just gets lost in the discussion.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

^ Yup.

Fonz, until today, the protests were mostly peaceful. Even last night, when there was violence near the stadium, some of the peaceful protestors were actively trying to stop the violent ones. Today's violence is mostly juveniles. I'm willing to bet that they barely understand what Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. really stood for. He's ancient history to them. They certainly have no idea what Gandhian non-violence is! And they're angry, very angry, and out of control. I'm not justifying their violence at all, just saying that your expectations are unrealistic.

I didn't express an expectation. I expressed an idea.

Whoever these protestors are, the education system and/or their parents have failed them.

Are the posters on this board, who justify the violence, juveniles as well?

Semantics. I made the rash assumption you expected your idea to have at least a slight chance of working. Otherwise, why suggest it?

I happen to believe in the power of non-violence. I've taken part in non-violent civil disobedience (with the criminal record to prove it ) But non-violent actions take education, training, planning, self-discipline, and so on. The only one of those that we are seeing here today is planning. Planning and... rage.

Yes, their parents and/or the education system have failed them.

 

[Amaris]

That's not what disabuse means.

I absolutely know what disabuse means. I interpreted your comment about it backfiring to suggest that my comment was intended to be abusive.

And no, implying that people are a) advocating violence when they aren't, b) the products of failed parenting, and c) juvenile is not a valid question.

I was responding to Tora Ziyal's comments. Review the poll and please feel free to vote in it.

Just so it's understood that other people know what the word means, and that your understanding is incorrect, to disabuse yourself of something means to relinquish the idea that it is a correct line of thinking.

For example, if I tell you to disabuse yourself of the notion that the cake is a lie, I'm telling you that your notion is flawed, and you should be willing to drop it as a valid consideration.

 

[Mudd]

"Justified" and "effective" are obviously two different things.

Yes, the riots are justified.

 

[fonzob1]

"Justified" and "effective" are obviously two different things.

Yes, the riots are justified.

The amount of violence going on in Baltimore today has been obscene. My original post was in regards specifically to this behavior. A Baltimore resident was beaten unconscious by a mob of people. Was this justified?

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...-live-Vance-Gentzler-Kammerer--269554921.html

 

[Tora Ziyal]

The reasons and emotions behind the riots are justified. The behavior absolutely is not. But it is understandable.

 

[BillJ]

The reasons and emotions behind the riots are justified. The behavior absolutely is not. But it is understandable.

I just hope you guys are able to make strides in community relations going forward from here. Cincinnati was in a similar situation prior to the April, 2001 riots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001

The riots were sparked after 19-year-old Timothy Thomas, an unarmed African American, was shot and killed by Cincinnati Police Department Patrolman Stephen Roach during an attempt to arrest him for non-violent misdemeanors, most of which were traffic citations. Tensions were already high following a series of other incidents of alleged police brutality and racial profiling, including two deaths. Protests erupted into four nights of rioting in Cincinnati, with rioters throwing objects at police, and vandalizing and looting businesses before a city-imposed curfew effectively ended the unrest.

I think we're in a better place now.

 

[Amaris]

The reasons and emotions behind the riots are justified. The behavior absolutely is not. But it is understandable.

I just hope you guys are able to make strides in community relations going forward from here. Cincinnati was in a similar situation prior to the April, 2001 riots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_riots_of_2001

The riots were sparked after 19-year-old Timothy Thomas, an unarmed African American, was shot and killed by Cincinnati Police Department Patrolman Stephen Roach during an attempt to arrest him for non-violent misdemeanors, most of which were traffic citations. Tensions were already high following a series of other incidents of alleged police brutality and racial profiling, including two deaths. Protests erupted into four nights of rioting in Cincinnati, with rioters throwing objects at police, and vandalizing and looting businesses before a city-imposed curfew effectively ended the unrest.

I think we're in a better place now.

Agreed. Cincinnati's working hard to get better every day. It's even starting to become a safer haven for LGBT people.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

National Guard activated.

 

[BillJ]

Is the violence by Baltimore Protestors Justified?

Yes. No. I don't know?

I'm not black so I can't imagine being constantly badgered by police and seen as some type of blight. If I was in that position, I can imagine it getting tiresome very quickly and be very aware that the next black man murdered by police may be me.

It's a tough situation with no easy answers.

 

[BillJ]

Agreed. Cincinnati's working hard to get better every day. It's even starting to become a safer haven for LGBT people.

I worked in Downtown Cincinnati during those riots and owned a house in Over-the-Rhine. Not a comfortable few days.

 

[Mudd]

"Justified" and "effective" are obviously two different things.

Yes, the riots are justified.

The amount violence going on in Baltimore today has been obscene. My original post was in regards specifically to this behavior. A Baltimore resident was beaten unconscious by a mob of people. Was this justified?

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...-live-Vance-Gentzler-Kammerer--269554921.html

Clearly you have an answer in mind that is the only one you're satisfied by.

Are rebellions ever justified? Are revolutions? Any wars at all?

Yes. The riots are justified.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Considering the death of Freddie Gray wasn't even mentioned on this site until rioting broke out, if we take "justified" to mean "necessary to bring broad attention to this incident," then I guess it is!

One wonders how many young black men have to die at the hands of police, and how many times people have to riot over it, before this country puts a stop to the killing.

 

[fonzob1]

It's a tough situation with no easy answers.

I disagree. This is on a much larger scale than Ferguson, and it is not just police who have been targeted.

 

[Hound of UIster]

There would be no U.S.A. without violent protests and outbursts. But I guess that's only acceptable when the protesters are white Christians.

So its okay to set fire to a CVS and then cut the fire hose when the Fire Department tries to put it out? Its okay to mace a CNN reporter and then try to steal his phone while blinded?

But it's alright to beat reporters/photographers for doing their job as long as it's state sanctioned?

It's alright to continue a series of abusive practices that have left multiple people paralyzed and dead across the span of three decades as long as the media and internet isn't shedding light on it.

It's alright to throw rocks at protestors as long as you wear a badge and can claim you are a police officer.

 

[Amaris]

Agreed. Cincinnati's working hard to get better every day. It's even starting to become a safer haven for LGBT people.

I worked in Downtown Cincinnati during those riots and owned a house in Over-the-Rhine. Not a comfortable few days.

Wow, you're not kidding! I live near Cincinnati, but not close enough to see what goes on all of the time.

 

[BillJ]

Clearly you have an answer in mind that is the only one you're satisfied by.

Are rebellions ever justified? Are revolutions? Any wars at all?

Yes. The riots are justified.

No USA without rebellion, revolution and violence.

 

[Mudd]

It's terrible when innocent people are the targets of violence, whether it's police violence or civilian.

 

[fonzob1]

Clearly you have an answer in mind that is the only one you're satisfied by.

Are rebellions ever justified? Are revolutions? Any wars at all?

Yes. The riots are justified.

No USA without rebellion, revolution and violence.

Violence against who? I think American revolutionaries were more calculated in their targets. I am not aware of instances where they targeted innocent bystanders and business owners at random.

It's terrible when innocent people are the targets of violence, whether it's police violence or civilian.

Terrible but justified?