Whoops! I was 'thinking out loud', not realizing I was typing my thoughts. Sorry.
Villainous relations? [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter AJBlue98
- Start date
Whoops! I was 'thinking out loud', not realizing I was typing my thoughts. Sorry.
No, no one said that. Another thread was closed because it really didn't offer much topic for discussion - something that thread-starter had been asked not to do. This thread here does not suffer that failing and is just fine.
Posted this in the other thread, but will repost it here.
http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/07/09/star-trek-2-villain-revealed/
http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/07/09/star-trek-2-villain-revealed/
You know, relying on characters’ motivations to try to decipher who would or wouldn’t do what to whom really doesn’t make much sense in this instance. This is true not only because the new film takes place in a rebooted universe, but because the whole timeline has been moved up about ten years.
Look at Spock’s decision to put Kirk off the ship in Star Trek (2009). I cannot fathom a situation in which Leonard Nimoy’s Spock would have stranded another Starfleet officer in that situation, even after witnessing the death of his mother and his home planet. But this is a younger Spock who grew up in a universe so completely paranoid they built the Enterprise into a dreadnaught, not just a cruiser, and in which humans have brawls in bars, when Gene Roddenberry strictly forbade any animosity between humans in the prime timeline.
This also is a universe in which Robert April never had a thing to do with the Enterprise (unless by some future feat of retroactive continuity, he supervised her construction,) and in which due to the Nero mission, Pike’s captaincy lasted about a week. Now Jim Kirk is captain of the Enterprise a decade early.
Kirk missed out on his time on the U.S.S. Republic and the opportunity to rat out Ben Finney. He’s also had no time as tactical officer on the U.S.S. Farragut. Chris Pine’s Kirk never will be the man Bill Shatner played, and it will be at least another decade in the universe’s storyline before any of the possible villains in this piece can possibly be the same people we know from the original series.
Khan, Gary Mitchell, Gary Seven, Ben Finney, Kodos the Executioner: regardless of which of these villains (or what other villain) makes it onto the screen in Star Trek Into Darkness, that character will say and do things no Star Trek villain ever said or did — or likely would have been capable of saying or doing — before.
As for Sybok, clearly from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, the whackadoo’s sufficiently old that his embrace of emotion must go back far enough to have predated the U.S.S. Kelvin’s encounter with the Narada. In fact, I remind myself that since Vulcans have double or triple the lifespan of a human, it’s altogether likely that Sybok is several decades older than Spock. And due to Vulcans’ slower apparent aging process, Sybok may have been an adult by the time of the Kelvin’s destruction yet still look relatively young by the time Star Trek Into Darkness’ story begins, or at least if they do, they don’t advertise it to each other.
As for the ear-thing, it seems pretty obvious to me that Starfleet types don’t go around introducing themselves by announcing their respective species. Yes, if Sybok entered the academy, his Vulcan heritage would be part of his record, and any non-Vulcan who found out would be curious about his lifestyle choice. But the Star Trek universe always has been one in which people just don’t go nosing around in other people’s business, even if in this new iteration they do disagree as individuals a bit more strenuously.
Additionally, Sybok would be outcast by his Vulcan countrymen. So I see no logical reason why Vulcan members of Starfleet would want to bring attention to Sybok’s dishonor by waving it in other officers’ faces. If anything, I would imagine that they would work most diligently to ignore him, even going so far as quietly redirecting any interest from other students who find out.
So do I honestly believe Cumberbatch could be playing Sybok? Sure. Sybok can’t be the same person we met in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. Whatever other villain may be in this movie simply cannot be the same person he was in whatever incarnation of Star Trek he previously appeared. And Kirk and Spock already are demonstrably different people from the characters played by Shatner and Nimoy. Psychological profiling just won’t help this time, folks; all such bets are off.
Oh God, please help. I just wrote a semiformal essay for fun.
Look at Spock’s decision to put Kirk off the ship in Star Trek (2009). I cannot fathom a situation in which Leonard Nimoy’s Spock would have stranded another Starfleet officer in that situation, even after witnessing the death of his mother and his home planet. But this is a younger Spock who grew up in a universe so completely paranoid they built the Enterprise into a dreadnaught, not just a cruiser, and in which humans have brawls in bars, when Gene Roddenberry strictly forbade any animosity between humans in the prime timeline.
This also is a universe in which Robert April never had a thing to do with the Enterprise (unless by some future feat of retroactive continuity, he supervised her construction,) and in which due to the Nero mission, Pike’s captaincy lasted about a week. Now Jim Kirk is captain of the Enterprise a decade early.
Kirk missed out on his time on the U.S.S. Republic and the opportunity to rat out Ben Finney. He’s also had no time as tactical officer on the U.S.S. Farragut. Chris Pine’s Kirk never will be the man Bill Shatner played, and it will be at least another decade in the universe’s storyline before any of the possible villains in this piece can possibly be the same people we know from the original series.
Khan, Gary Mitchell, Gary Seven, Ben Finney, Kodos the Executioner: regardless of which of these villains (or what other villain) makes it onto the screen in Star Trek Into Darkness, that character will say and do things no Star Trek villain ever said or did — or likely would have been capable of saying or doing — before.
As for Sybok, clearly from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, the whackadoo’s sufficiently old that his embrace of emotion must go back far enough to have predated the U.S.S. Kelvin’s encounter with the Narada. In fact, I remind myself that since Vulcans have double or triple the lifespan of a human, it’s altogether likely that Sybok is several decades older than Spock. And due to Vulcans’ slower apparent aging process, Sybok may have been an adult by the time of the Kelvin’s destruction yet still look relatively young by the time Star Trek Into Darkness’ story begins, or at least if they do, they don’t advertise it to each other.
As for the ear-thing, it seems pretty obvious to me that Starfleet types don’t go around introducing themselves by announcing their respective species. Yes, if Sybok entered the academy, his Vulcan heritage would be part of his record, and any non-Vulcan who found out would be curious about his lifestyle choice. But the Star Trek universe always has been one in which people just don’t go nosing around in other people’s business, even if in this new iteration they do disagree as individuals a bit more strenuously.
Additionally, Sybok would be outcast by his Vulcan countrymen. So I see no logical reason why Vulcan members of Starfleet would want to bring attention to Sybok’s dishonor by waving it in other officers’ faces. If anything, I would imagine that they would work most diligently to ignore him, even going so far as quietly redirecting any interest from other students who find out.
So do I honestly believe Cumberbatch could be playing Sybok? Sure. Sybok can’t be the same person we met in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. Whatever other villain may be in this movie simply cannot be the same person he was in whatever incarnation of Star Trek he previously appeared. And Kirk and Spock already are demonstrably different people from the characters played by Shatner and Nimoy. Psychological profiling just won’t help this time, folks; all such bets are off.
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Oh God, please help. I just wrote a semiformal essay for fun.
But what does this have to do with him not having pointy ears?
I want to see Sybok's birth certificate and Starfleet Academy Records. That will solve it.
The aforementioned “ear thing” is a reference to the fact that some in this thread have taken umbrage with my suggestion that Sybok may have had plastic surgery to remove the points of his ears, for what as-yet-unknown purpose I cannot say. Having done so and yet remaining a Vulcan in all other physiological respects would be quite remarkable and therefore could become a subject for discussion among Starfleet’s personnel. Of course, he would not introduce himself by saying, “hi, I'm Sybok. I'm a Vulcan but I’ve got round ears. Am I not cool?” And since people tend to respect each other’s privacy in the Star Trek universe, my argument here is basically that Cumberbatch’s having round ears in the trailer doesn’t necessarily preclude him playing Sybok.
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So if he is not disguising himself as a human what would be the reason for JJ not to have him with pointy ears? Disguise, sure. Otherwise it makes no sense.
And shaved eyebrows?
It's entirely possible he was coached to slip that into conversation. Take the heat off Khanspiracy theories, and try to start another. The Mitchellspiracy.
My problem with Gary Mitchell, is the villain needing to use a gun in the trailer. Shouldn't any weapon he'd use, be at least floating in mid air and being operated by telekinesis? This is guy who can just think things into happening.
What if Captain Garth had been Section 31's attempt to create an augment? At point between 2233 when Nero arrived and 2158, the Federation were at war with some race. Maybe a different foe due to history being different and canon not applying. Perhaps the Romulans. Garth was the means to an end and after the conflict was over, possibly during, he went spectacularly wrong. In the Prime Universe he was badly injured and healed by a grateful alien species, called the Axanar. But clearly insane and once he was done, not satisfied with being Fleet Captain, wanted higher and higher goals. Until about a decade later by "Whom Gods Destroy", he's in a mental asylum with his own crazy take on the Federation in the cells next to him... an Orion, an Tellarite and an Andorian.
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And I suspect the one in the black sleeve belongs to Pike, getting deep-sixed - the trailer's designed with a lot of misdirection in mind, AFAICS
What if Paramount goofed and spliced in part of an old fire prevention video, where you have to touch your hand to the door to see if it’s warm?
Never thought of that, did ya? Some unreleased video done in the 1960′s: “How to Live Long and Prosper from Fire Prevention with Leonard Nimoy!”
you know what. i've been thinking along these lines too... i'd love to get some proper Klingon action in this new film. maybe KAHN is code for KANG?! if anyone can do the Michael Ansara role justice it is Mr. Cumberbatch
