villain deaths in the TNG films

[Captrek]

A pet peeve I have with the TNG films is the unjustified delight the films take with the manner in which the villains meet their ends.

In GEN, Picard sets the missile launcher to explode. Soran then gets the drop on him with a gun. Soran has every reason in the world to hate Picard and want him dead, but in a remarkable show of mercy, he chooses to spare his life, ordering him to get away instead of shooting him. Picard has an opportunity to reciprocate that show of mercy by warning Soran about the impending explosion, but instead he gets himself to a safe distance and watches Soran, unaware, walk into a trap where he gets caught in the explosion and dies. That’s fucked up.

INS is even worse. Ru’afo is on the collector. Picard beams over to the collector, sets it to self destruct, and instructs Riker to beam him, and only him, off the collector, leaving Ru’afo there to die. There is no justifying this. It’s cold-blooded murder.

FC treats us to the image of Picard casually snapping the neck of the defenseless queen. This one may be justified: maybe there are still Borg drones presenting an imminent threat and killing the queen ends the threat. Another possibility is that the queen is suffering and it’s actually a mercy killing. The film isn’t very clear about either question, so to some degree we have to rely on fanwank to justify the act. Even assuming it’s justified, it feels wrong to watch Picard unrepentantly deliver the coup de grace to a creature who is so utterly helpless.

In NEM, he unquestionably has a good excuse. He kills Shinzon in self defense. However, for me the satisfaction is undercut by the oft-repeated premise of the film, that Shinzon is what Picard would be if Picard had experienced what Shinzon has experienced. To cheer Shinzon’s death is to say that if Picard had endured a lifetime of Romulan cruelty, we would cheer Picard’s death. This actually could have been a strength of the film if Picard had shed a tear for Shinzon or eulogized him in any way, but that doesn’t happen. (Picard and the other Enterprise bridge officers are sad afterwards, but they’re grieving for Data. There’s no indication that anybody mourns for Shinzon, or that the viewer is expected to.)

This detracts from my enjoyment of the films... and makes me wonder about the psychology of the people responsible for them.

 

[Timo]

In GEN, Picard sets the missile launcher to explode. Soran then gets the drop on him with a gun. Soran has every reason in the world to hate Picard and want him dead, but in a remarkable show of mercy, he chooses to spare his life, ordering him to get away instead of shooting him.

To me, it looks more like Soran is afraid of damaging his vitally important rocket... He would definitely want to shoot Picard eventually, but first he has to get him away from the rocket, then he has to check up on the rocket, and then it's too late already.

Soran is not a nice guy. He's not particularly murderous, either - but he is out of options. He has to kill Picard, and he will, if he gets the chance. With him holding the gun, it's not as if Picard could show mercy in any practicable manner.

Picard has an opportunity to reciprocate that show of mercy by warning Soran about the impending explosion, but instead he gets himself to a safe distance and watches Soran, unaware, walk into a trap where he gets caught in the explosion and dies. That’s fucked up.

Warning Soran about what's going to happen to the rocket would risk giving Soran the means to prevent the rocket's destruction. It's a simple matter of releasing the locking clamps, after all. Picard's and Veridian's future hinges on Soran not figuring out how the sabotage was conducted, so Picard doesn't really have much leeway there. Not to mention that if he didn't ensure Soran's death, Soran would still ensure his. That's not fucked up at all - just yer basic gentlemanly self-defense.

INS is even worse. Ru’afo is on the collector. Picard beams over to the collector, sets it to self destruct, and instructs Riker to beam him, and only him, off the collector, leaving Ru’afo there to die. There is no justifying this. It’s cold-blooded murder.

That one I could agree with - if not for the fact that nothing of the sort happened in the movie. Picard did not instruct Riker to leave Ru'afo to die. Picard just waited and expected to die himself, at which point Riker saved him by transporting.

If Picard had an escape plan, Ru'afo could be expected to have his own; it's his own damn fault for coming unprepared aboard a doomed superweapon.

Even assuming it’s justified, it feels wrong to watch Picard unrepentantly deliver the coup de grace to a creature who is so utterly helpless.

Again, what other courses of action would be open to him? Make the Queen more empowered and the snap its neck? That's just plain silly. If you're going to kill, then doing it "humanely" is just sick, sick, sick, and merely proves you are a disgusting hypocrite who doesn't stand behind his convictions.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[BillJ]

The thing that bothers me is that the endings of all four films are pretty much interchangeable.

 

[Ssosmcin]

After Picard jumped off the launcher in GEN, you can see Soran trying to get a shot at him, but Picard ducks behind the rocks. It's only a second or so of film time, but it's pretty obvious Soran couldn't shoot Picard without drestroying the control panel. Once Picard was clear, it was obstructed by rocks.

I do agree that Riker could have locked onto to Ro'afo and Picard. If Ru'afo hadn't killed Dougherty (the only other death in the film), it would have been worse. Actually, the film was so milquetoast, they could have spared both men and just arrested Ru'afo and let the Admiral have a change of heart which has him personally take the case to the council. I actually would have preferred that. Even of Ru'afo had to die, I think dying by his own hand (stubbornly trying to use the sabotaged collector and blowing himself up) would have been preferabel to Riker's "pick one". The dude at Red Letter Media made an interesting point that "what if Ru'afo had a change of heart himself and helped Picard, but Riker had no idea?" It was an 11th hour "action film" demise to make up for the original, failed idea of Ru'afo deaging to nothingness.

 

[Tosk]

INS is even worse. Ru’afo is on the collector. Picard beams over to the collector, sets it to self destruct, and instructs Riker to beam him, and only him, off the collector, leaving Ru’afo there to die. There is no justifying this. It’s cold-blooded murder.

Even apart from the (already pointed out) fact that Picard never ordered that, how the heck does a life or death fight with one victor constitute cold-blooded murder?

 

[MrBorg]

FC treats us to the image of Picard casually snapping the neck of the defenseless queen. This one may be justified: maybe there are still Borg drones presenting an imminent threat and killing the queen ends the threat. Another possibility is that the queen is suffering and it’s actually a mercy killing. The film isn’t very clear about either question, so to some degree we have to rely on fanwank to justify the act. Even assuming it’s justified, it feels wrong to watch Picard unrepentantly deliver the coup de grace to a creature who is so utterly helpless.

But shes the Borg Queen. Nobody complained when Worf sliced off the arm of a Borg Drone, and then tied it to his leg to keep his suit from depressurizing, or when Picard pulls out a Tommy Gun and goes all gangsta on the Borg drones.

Plus, she was an evil b****.

She didn't really die anyway, though.

 

[Captrek]

INS is even worse. Ru’afo is on the collector. Picard beams over to the collector, sets it to self destruct, and instructs Riker to beam him, and only him, off the collector, leaving Ru’afo there to die. There is no justifying this. It’s cold-blooded murder.

Even apart from the (already pointed out) fact that Picard never ordered that, how the heck does a life or death fight with one victor constitute cold-blooded murder?

Actually, yes, that is what Picard ordered. He told Riker that he was going to “need a ride.” He was in contact with Riker for over a minute and never mentioned that there was somebody else who also was going to need a ride. The excuse is that he didn’t bother to mention it because he wasn’t sure the Enterprise was going to get there in time. It’s an unbelievably pathetic excuse. If you’re so determined to judge Picard’s actions good that you will accept that ridiculous rationalization, then the discussion’s over before it begins.

 

[Timo]

In your dreams.

Remember, when Riker says for the final time that he's going to be there, nine seconds before doomsday, Picard says "No, you are not - I am committing valiant suicide right here and now, because that's the only way to make sure Ru'afo doesn't save the collector and kill all the Ba'ku". Then he commits said suicide by blowing up the collector.

There is not going to be a rescue for either Picard or Ru'afo, not in Picard's informed opinion. He's not unsure of rescue, he's certain of death.

That Riker manages to save Picard nevertheless is an unexpected (ha!) plot twist. That he doesn't save Ru'afo is fundamentally no different from the fact that he fires at the three Son'a ships and slaughters hundreds or thousands. Using nonlethal means to subjugate the enemy might have been possible, but it would not have been practicable.

That Riker didn't blow up the Son'a command ship is already plenty for proving that the spirit of Star Trek is alive and well. That's more magnanimous than Kirk firing at Klingons on stun during a time of declared war.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Greg Cox]

Where the Borg Queen was concerned, I think Picard can be forgiven for losing his cool a little. The man's not made of stone . . . .

 

[sonak]

as for your Nemesis example, I never bought into the "Shinzon as dark mirror for Picard" thing anyway, so I wasn't thinking that when Shinzon dies. One of the problems with that movie, is that other than a vague physical resemblance, the two are nothing alike. Shinzon just comes off as a random thug with a big ship.

 

[Timo]

With Stewart acting in a double role, the movie could have done so much more. So Shinzon was intended to replace Picard? Hey, let him! Not in the "nobody notices it's his evil twin" sense, but in allowing him to do the Picard thing at the last moment and die a valiant death in protection of high moral values. Or even have a final duel-to-death where the good guy survives, but we are left wondering which of them it really was...

Certainly the concept of an already dying villain preempts much of the moral ambiguity of having him finally die.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[sonak]

With Stewart acting in a double role, the movie could have done so much more. So Shinzon was intended to replace Picard? Hey, let him! Not in the "nobody notices it's his evil twin" sense, but in allowing him to do the Picard thing at the last moment and die a valiant death in protection of high moral values. Or even have a final duel-to-death where the good guy survives, but we are left wondering which of them it really was...

Certainly the concept of an already dying villain preempts much of the moral ambiguity of having him finally die.

Timo Saloniemi

ooh, I like that last part. Sort of the "Arturo switch" from "Sliders" back during a season when the show was still good.

 

[Captrek]

In your dreams.

Remember, when Riker says for the final time that he's going to be there, nine seconds before doomsday, Picard says "No, you are not - I am committing valiant suicide right here and now, because that's the only way to make sure Ru'afo doesn't save the collector and kill all the Ba'ku". Then he commits said suicide by blowing up the collector.

There is not going to be a rescue for either Picard or Ru'afo, not in Picard's informed opinion. He's not unsure of rescue, he's certain of death.

Of course, there is absolutely no basis for such certainty, other than the weak excuse it provides for leaving Ru’afo to die.

 

[horatio83]

A pet peeve I have with the TNG films is the unjustified delight the films take with the manner in which the villains meet their ends.

In GEN, Picard sets the missile launcher to explode. Soran then gets the drop on him with a gun. Soran has every reason in the world to hate Picard and want him dead, but in a remarkable show of mercy, he chooses to spare his life, ordering him to get away instead of shooting him. Picard has an opportunity to reciprocate that show of mercy by warning Soran about the impending explosion, but instead he gets himself to a safe distance and watches Soran, unaware, walk into a trap where he gets caught in the explosion and dies. That’s fucked up.

INS is even worse. Ru’afo is on the collector. Picard beams over to the collector, sets it to self destruct, and instructs Riker to beam him, and only him, off the collector, leaving Ru’afo there to die. There is no justifying this. It’s cold-blooded murder.

FC treats us to the image of Picard casually snapping the neck of the defenseless queen. This one may be justified: maybe there are still Borg drones presenting an imminent threat and killing the queen ends the threat. Another possibility is that the queen is suffering and it’s actually a mercy killing. The film isn’t very clear about either question, so to some degree we have to rely on fanwank to justify the act. Even assuming it’s justified, it feels wrong to watch Picard unrepentantly deliver the coup de grace to a creature who is so utterly helpless.

In NEM, he unquestionably has a good excuse. He kills Shinzon in self defense. However, for me the satisfaction is undercut by the oft-repeated premise of the film, that Shinzon is what Picard would be if Picard had experienced what Shinzon has experienced. To cheer Shinzon’s death is to say that if Picard had endured a lifetime of Romulan cruelty, we would cheer Picard’s death. This actually could have been a strength of the film if Picard had shed a tear for Shinzon or eulogized him in any way, but that doesn’t happen. (Picard and the other Enterprise bridge officers are sad afterwards, but they’re grieving for Data. There’s no indication that anybody mourns for Shinzon, or that the viewer is expected to.)

This detracts from my enjoyment of the films... and makes me wonder about the psychology of the people responsible for them.

In a conversation between Picard and Data it is established that NEM clearly believes in free will and not determinism.
While I am the first one to argue against deriving pleasure out of killing your enemy (something Picard never did in any of the four movies; the Borg Queen is already dead, you merely see the stupid mechanics of her skull) I totally fail to see why the Enterprise should mourn the death of their enemy.

 

[Timo]

Of course, there is absolutely no basis for such certainty

Except for every possible element of the plot, you mean?

There's a countdown timer we get to see. There's a fight going badly for the wheezing old geezer of a captain. There's the best-case-scenario of everything ending in a giant fireball.

For Picard to start worrying about the well-being of his nemesis at that point would be the pinnacle of absurdity. For armchair quarterbackers to even consider critiquing him for his decisions... Now that's simply disgusting. Even when considering that it's just a movie character.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captrek]

For Picard to start worrying about the well-being of his nemesis at that point would be...

...Star Trek. Kirk tries to save Khan, Kruge, and Nero. Spock tries to save Sybok. Vejur, the probe, Valeris, and Cartwright survive their encounters with the heroes. Klaa gets to go to a cocktail party. I expect better from the captain of the Enterprise.

 

[Vasquez Rocks]

In NEM, he unquestionably has a good excuse. He kills Shinzon in self defense. However, for me the satisfaction is undercut by the oft-repeated premise of the film, that Shinzon is what Picard would be if Picard had experienced what Shinzon has experienced. To cheer Shinzon’s death is to say that if Picard had endured a lifetime of Romulan cruelty, we would cheer Picard’s death. This actually could have been a strength of the film if Picard had shed a tear for Shinzon or eulogized him in any way, but that doesn’t happen. (Picard and the other Enterprise bridge officers are sad afterwards, but they’re grieving for Data. There’s no indication that anybody mourns for Shinzon, or that the viewer is expected to.)

Picard does have this weird moment, right after killing Shinzon, that is unlike anything I've seen him do before. He freezes up, with a bewildered look on his face. Perhaps this is him thinking of that very thing you mentioned.

Also, just wanted to mention that for as much as people complain about "action" Picard in the films, there are moments too where he is the thinking man, like when he tries to persuade Soran from using the trillithium or his plea to Shinzon in his ready room to stop what he is about to do. Of course this all falls on deaf ears from the two, but it does show the Picard from the tv series. Only after talking fails does he take action.

 

[BennyRussel]

There was no reason for Picard to show any mercy to the Borg Queen or show any remorse about breaking her neck. There was no realistic way to negotiate/rehabilitate her or any of the other Borg on the Enterprise at the time and they had coldly killed and/or assimilated many of his crew and many humans on the Earth's surface.

But generally "Movie Picard" was much more of an action hero than "TV Picard" "TV Picard" MAY have tried to treat the villains you mention in the original post with some mercy by arresting them or something, but that approach doesn't fit as well with the Hollywood mold of the hero.

 

[Captrek]

But generally "Movie Picard" was much more of an action hero than "TV Picard" "TV Picard" MAY have tried to treat the villains you mention in the original post with some mercy by arresting them or something, but that approach doesn't fit as well with the Hollywood mold of the hero.

TOS managed to maintain that sensibility even after the transition from TV to movies. TNG lost that quality when it made the transition, and in my opinion that quality is an essential part of what makes Star Trek Star Trek.

To me, the TNG films don't feel much like Star Trek at all, but more like uninspired attempts to create generic Hollywood action flicks with the TNG cast. As generic Hollywood action flicks go, they're not very good. Patrick Stewart is not Jason Statham or Bruce Willis, and treating him as such, IMO, resulted in four pretty bad movies.

 

[Timo]

Kirk tries to save Khan, Kruge, and Nero. Spock tries to save Sybok.

Note how all these examples are fundamentally different from the case of Rua'fo or Soran.

Namely, Kirk had defeated Khan, Kruge and Nero before offering his helping hand. Spock had defeated Sybok when surrendering to him. Picard was being defeated by Rua'fo and Soran, though - it was Picard who was dying, and it was the enemy's choice whether to kill or have mercy.

Picard never could hope to turn tables on Rua'fo/Soran, except by allowing him to be killed by his own monstrous machine...

..Which just goes to show that it's easy to be a hero when you have the upper hand. Although Hollywood does overuse the idea that being the underdog legitimizes all sorts of nastiness!

Picard is no Willis. But that's all for the better, as we get to see what a Trek action hero would be like - in many ways the opposite of the immoral gunslinger who gruesomely kills his enemies when given the chance, as opposed to doing it when the two conditions of chance and necessity coincide.

Timo Saloniemi